This retailer modified M4 replica is all the rage on several forums. Lots of questions, lots of talk. I got a larger than expected tax return and don't own a M4 yet and the M4 bug bit. Lets take a look at it.
The retailer:
Airsoft GI is one of the largest retailer in the US now. They are not my first stop for my purchases however. Due to a number of reasons, even though I have had positive experiences with them so far. This replica was ordered 10 days ago. This is the fastest that I have EVER gotten a product from them. The reality is. They are on the WEST Coast of the Country, They are handling ever larger volumes of product. As a result they are slower to process and ship orders than other retailers and there is a lag in transit time to get it here from there.
Overall. The packaging was standard for other retailers. A large Cardboard box stuffed with brown paper, inside was the smaller packages for the individual items. The package was shipped free, via UPS ground and took about a week after it was shipped to arrive.
What I got
AirsoftGI does a pretty good job of video describing what a G4-18 is. You can look for those videos on Youtube. Initially I wanted a G4 in TAN but they sold out (literally) moments before I placed my order, so I settled on a black one.
There are many G4 packages, basically they are all built around a G&G Combat Machine AEG Pneumatic Blow back Mechanism and body in which they add a Daniel Defense Licensed RIS rail Hand guard, a Crane Stock, Flip Up sights, and a aftermarket Outer Metal Barrel. In my case this cost $250. After a lot of searching, I decided that for $250 the sum of the parts included was worth the risks involved. G&G has always made a pretty decent external replica, The internals have sometimes been problematic over time. Still the cost was right. Also factoring into this was I wanted a M4 that fired around 300fps with .20, I was clear in my inquiry to Airsoft GI that this was my target fps and it HAD to fire below 400fps with .20, If it didn't I would need it respringed so it did.
With in the G&G standard packaging was a slip from airsoftGI that it chronographed 325fps with .20 gram BB. I figured its a blow back, and the spring will settle perfectly, I have a TK twist barrel that will probably work with it. Awesome! However when I chronoed it was shooting WAYY Hot with a high of 406fps with .20! What the HELL, someone is lying to me.
Now, My "budget chrono" I suspect is off and not real accurate. So use those Fps numbers only as a guide until I chrono at the field, after all that is the chronograph that matters. Either my chrono is wrong of Airsoft Gi is.
First impressions, External
Wow, G&G does make a "pretty" gun. The receivers are made of a high quality ballistic Nylon, there is a lot of metal on the gun over all. You can get a pretty good idea from the Airsoft GI's videos. Let just say I was impressed. I think I am going to like the functional forward assist and charging handle. I like the feature that it the charging handle and forward assist release the spring tension in the gearbox. The hop up looks like they are the standard Armalite Replica TM style so well known for creep. No comment on its performance yet as it is yet untested and un-tried
The Front and rear sight are a flip up style shown below. The rear has a wire latch to hold it in place, I do not have much confidence that this latch will stay with the replica, It falls out pretty easily.
The star of this show is the Daniel Defense licensed Rails. These are a things of beauty! It was almost a shame to take the bottom panel off they are so nice. Not a hint of wobble of flex. If I buy another M4, and I am tempted to buy a TM or KWA yet. I will be adding these rail to it.
The bottom panel that I removed, Notice the trade marks on the inside.
I mentioned above that I removed the bottom panel already. This is because I am (have) installed a G&P barrel mounted M203 that was left over from NOT fitting on my TM. It dropped right onto the metal outer barrel with issue and clamped right on.
G&G no longer uses it earlier more correct but unlicensed trademark Replacing it with there own. The G&P M203 has Colt trades as shown.
Other addition was a UTG branded (leapers) TACEDGE 7" RED/GREEN Dot scope. After some use I am either going to install a tightbore or a TK twist barrel, but this is dependent on what it actually chronographs.
I purchase a 9.6volt 4200NiMH Cranes Stock Battery for use with this replica, I have not charged it yet but figure on adding another $55 to your order for a specialist battery. Oh and Crane stock are a pain to get the battery in and out of. I think this is worth it though because I REALLY dislike batteries in Hand Guards.
MORE LATER
This is a Preliminary Report, right now this replica has NO use, I will not comment on its performance and longevity until it has some. Again, I consider this replica a RISK until it is proven otherwise. Do NOT run out and purchase this replica because I did! I still feel that G&Gs are not good replicas for the beginning player. They have a long history of needing fiddling with. Externally though the replica is nice. The one thing that does impress me right now is the Daniel Defense Licensed Rails, I can understand why they had not problem getting a license, like I wrote above, Any other M4 I own will probably get them. Look for more reports on this replica as soon as the snow melts and we can get onto the fields again.
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low observability, high firepower, high drag, low speed
3rd platoon Highlanders!, machine gunner Do NOT anger the forum Illuminati, please search first Team STAG
Quote P7hk9 "Just do it as a TEAM and not as Master Chief."
I have been working on this thing most of the day. The good news is I like most of what I found internally but I am having some issues.
First, I went to my collection and shot just about everything to test the SWISS ARMS cheapskate chronograph, Some times it is accurate other times it is +/-30 fps or so, Close enough I guess. While it was being accurate I shot the G4-18 across and came up to 435 fps with .20, Most of the other recent owners that I am in contact with are also getting between 390 and 430fps, It seems the AirsoftGI took it upon themselves to but in a high velocity spring. Sigh. I do Not want a M4 that shoots between 400 and 450fps, sorry, not happening so into the internals we go>
I bought Prometheus Perfect Metal Chamber NEO (M4 Hopup Chamber, with Pressure Arm and Gear) from airsoft Atlanta and installed a PDI 110 AEG spring, a Mad Bull Shark Hop Up Bucking (Red) with it. While it was apart I also slid in a Guarder 6.04mm Tightbore, this is when the issues started.
Apparently my Guarder barrel has a flaw in it somewhere causing jams. I have even gone so far as to drop a BB down the barrel they get stuck about a 2" in from the hop up chamber end. This is really disappointing as this was a pretty good barrel. I have since replaced the Guarder Tightbore with the stock aluminum barrel. I did not realize that the barrel was the issue until I had swapped out and rebuilt 4 hop up chambers and put it together and and taken it apart 6 times, (isn't air-smithing fun?) The PDI spring how has the AEG shooting a very consistent 265fps, a little lower than I wanted of expected, I may pull it out and order a PDI 130% which is going to get me closer to my fps goal of shooting around 330-350fps with .20s, I am not looking forward to taking the whole thing down again! I can only assume that the pneumatic blowback robs a lot of air causing a loss in velocity, I have no idea what spring it originally came with when it left airsoft GI but I guess it is close to a equivalent Gurader MS130!
Here are the links that I am using in this endeavor: TOP TECH/ G&G has a really good tech support website that included exploded views, step by set videos and pictures for assembly disassemble of both replica and gearbox. In fact it is one of the best I have seen from any manufacture thus far. Exploded view PDF
Mechbox.com, if you are messing with the guts of any airsoft replica this is invaluable.
This is a exploded image of the crane stock with a appropriate Intellect 9.6Volt 1600MaH battery
To take out the barrel and hop up you have to take down the front grip, outer barrel, delta ring and separate the upper receiver.
To take the gearbox out you pretty much got take everything apart, remove the stock, stock tube, upper receiver you should be left with this. You then got take the grip out by removing the motor (long type) and under that are two screws:
Note that the forward receiver pin is NOT removable, the gearbox will catch on it if you are not looking for it, It took awhile to figure out why it was not coming apart when it should. You also need to remove a pin above the trigger and the rear receiver pin.
The piston head is heavily vented and ported, I have never seen anything like it.
This is the Pneumatic blowback parts, It is pretty simple and after it is off you are dealing with a Version 2 Gearbox, be forewarned that the clip on top of the gearbox is the MOST CONTRARY, EVIL, PAIN IN THE ...........EVER! put on a gearbox, just be patient and carefully forceful with it! It took the better part of 3 hours to slid it off with a hammer and a punch!. EVIL I say evil! In addition the false bolt is very light gauge metal, it is easy to bend and is also fiddly to get out, Honestly I am temped to remove it but have not yet.
The inside of the gearbox was actually real well shimmed! The only thing that concerned me a little was that the anti reverse latch does not seem to reach both sides of the gearbox shell, but as long as it does its job and stays in place I am not going to mess with it. The Spring guide is a heavy lump of metal, I may but a bearing one it next time I am in the gearbox.
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low observability, high firepower, high drag, low speed
3rd platoon Highlanders!, machine gunner Do NOT anger the forum Illuminati, please search first Team STAG
Quote P7hk9 "Just do it as a TEAM and not as Master Chief."
Last edited by Jeep : 03-13-2010 at 09:48 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Location: Philadelphia (west and southwest to be specific)
Posts: 468
After reading this review I am considering getting a G4 from this site. Very good review. I have a question. Do you think its worth $200 (budget minded) naked just gun and mag, or would a jg m4 s-system(not the enhanced version that shoots hot i know the normal is shooting clear fps wise) purchased with add ons such as sight and a grip or even a tightbore be more worth it. Simply because you would get more bang for your buck.
Honestly, I can not comment on its longevity, it is too new. The gearbox looked OK the shimming was on, I like the heavy duty large sized brass bushings, but only time and use will tell how it holds up internally. It DOES shoots too HOT for C3, fps wise, it will have to be respringed before you bring it to the field. The false bolt is flimsy and does nothing except make a nifty way to open the dust cover to adjust the hop up. It is very complex to take apart.
Even so, currently I think that the $250 price is a deal. Lets price it out, averaging the cost of roughly the same products between AirsoftGI, Airsoft Atlanta, and E hobbies asia (counting shipping)
You are/would be getting a high quality aftermarket metal barrel ($45), a extremely well made RIS system ($110 to $150) a good quality Crane stock ($95-$110) and a nylon fiber upper and lower receiver that looks and so far feels solid, flip up sights $+/-$100 on a G&G combat machine blow back M4 body and mechanism ($170-$200), again only time will tell how long it lasts but the sum of its parts it is worth while to buy this package. for $250 you are getting $500-$600 worth of product retail
As for airsoftGI, I gave them another try and found them wanting. They took several days to process my order. then a week to get it here. Better than they have done for me in the past but not great. Don't order anything you want in a hurry from them. Second, I inquired about a TAN G4, they sold out moments before I ordered, so I ended up with this black one, as it was available. I checked yesterday and they have more tans ones in stock now, if they were going to be back in stock they should have informed me, they did not. Third, I specifically put on my order as a comment that I had a target fps and if this replica shot above 400fps to inform me that it did, so that I could pay for a spring to meet those requirements. They also not only did not inform me that it shot hot, but lied on the fps ticket toilet paper that it didn't shoot hot when in fact it did. I would have been really pissed if I had driven out to the field and found that out at the chrono station. Lastly, I ordered a $55 crane stock battery to use with this replica, It does not fit! the crane stock, Again in the comments on my order, if there where compatibility issues to contact me with my information, again AirsoftGI failed to do so.
AirsoftGI final grade is a -D
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low observability, high firepower, high drag, low speed
3rd platoon Highlanders!, machine gunner Do NOT anger the forum Illuminati, please search first Team STAG
Quote P7hk9 "Just do it as a TEAM and not as Master Chief."
The Plastica/Combat machines are my favorite budget M4s. A systema bucking and madbull barrel will work flawlessly in this.
I can't comment on the blow back part of this model, but my close friend has been running a plastica for a year now and has had no problems with it. From what I've seen and read, these newer sportline models seem to be better than G&G's pro line M4s.
First game with it, maybe 4000 BBs through it. The PDI 110% I think is a little to light for it chronoing at a very consistent 365 fps with .20s. It has a great ROF however. The wire rear sight retainer disappeared (just like I though it would). Otherwise I am pretty pleased with it.
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low observability, high firepower, high drag, low speed
3rd platoon Highlanders!, machine gunner Do NOT anger the forum Illuminati, please search first Team STAG
Quote P7hk9 "Just do it as a TEAM and not as Master Chief."
First game with it, maybe 4000 BBs through it. The PDI 110% I think is a little to light for it chronoing at a very consistent 365 fps with .20s. It has a great ROF however. The wire rear sight retainer disappeared (just like I though it would). Otherwise I am pretty pleased with it.
I'm claiming pain from running around addling my brain, meant to say 265fps with .20s, sorry.
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low observability, high firepower, high drag, low speed
3rd platoon Highlanders!, machine gunner Do NOT anger the forum Illuminati, please search first Team STAG
Quote P7hk9 "Just do it as a TEAM and not as Master Chief."
i hav the Airsoft GI G4-18 Carbine and i had the same problem with the fps being to high ....around 402-406 and i needed it to be less then 400fps ...since this aeg has blow back you hav to release the spring tention.....i left the tention on the spring 4 about 2 days and it reduced to about 389-397fps witch was perfect.
i hav the Airsoft GI G4-18 Carbine and i had the same problem with the fps being to high ....around 402-406 and i needed it to be less then 400fps ...since this aeg has blow back you hav to release the spring tention.....i left the tention on the spring 4 about 2 days and it reduced to about 389-397fps witch was perfect.
Welcome to the forums.
Please learn to type and follow the forum rules from now on. Punctuation and capital letters are not to be feared. They are your friends.
Those of you that played last week noticed that I was ONLY using the M60, this is because the G4-18 was not firing, it sounded like a misplaced anti-reverse latch I am not that lucky!
I opened them mech box up tonight in hopes of a easy fix and found that my piston is stripped out. This is a pretty big bummer. I am ordering a G&G Reinforced AEG Piston from airsoft atlanta for $24.00 not to bad, I expect it Monday or Tuesday next week.
A recap of modifications is thus:
a G&P barrel mounted M203
A Prometheus 363mm 6.03 tightbore barrel
A madbull shark H hop up nubbin in a strike chamber
A G&G reinforced piston
a PDI 150% spring = unknown until I get a piston:
a PDI 110% = 265fps with .20s and a insane ROF
a stock spring is between 404 and 435fps with .20 which forced me to open the mechbox before use
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low observability, high firepower, high drag, low speed
3rd platoon Highlanders!, machine gunner Do NOT anger the forum Illuminati, please search first Team STAG
Quote P7hk9 "Just do it as a TEAM and not as Master Chief."
Location: Philadelphia (west and southwest to be specific)
Posts: 468
WOW! thats a complete bummer dude. Hopefully your parts come in soon I'd like to read how it actually holds up during testing. I am looking into the tan carbine they have but after these horror stories I keep reading I might pass
I am considering a tan G4 myself, since that is what I wanted in the first place but if you take nothing from this thread, take this. have low expectations from airsoft GI.
They are far away, they are after your money, and they WILL lie to you by omission to get your business. To off set this is the fact that this is still a excellent deal, and G&Gs have improved markedly! expect that at the very least you will have to respring it. The advantage is the G4 packages are still pretty good deals for the amount of aftermarket external upgrades included with it. Especially the Daniel defense rails, make it worth it if the external "gingerbread" is the look or features you are after.
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low observability, high firepower, high drag, low speed
3rd platoon Highlanders!, machine gunner Do NOT anger the forum Illuminati, please search first Team STAG
Quote P7hk9 "Just do it as a TEAM and not as Master Chief."
Do you think this may be why your piston stripped?
I wouldn't be surprised if the piston has not completely reset before the sector gear gets around to grab the piston again.
They are stock gears right? Not highspeed?
That is exactly why I think it stripped, although it was shooting 265fps, in the realm of a stock TM, I was using 9.6 volt batteries, my TMs stand this all the time, I don't consider this excessive ROF performance. Now if I was running a 11.1 lipo or high speed gears that would be another thing. It is also very possible that I could have not aligned the sector gear as well as I should have when I put the different spring in (it did dislodge when I separated the gearbox halves. I am pretty sure it came with standard gears. Regardless, I went into the gearbox to respring it I can not really put the blame on airsoftgi for a stripped out piston, it is very possible that I screwed something up while I was in there. I expect my new piston from Airsoft Atlanta middle of next week.
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low observability, high firepower, high drag, low speed
3rd platoon Highlanders!, machine gunner Do NOT anger the forum Illuminati, please search first Team STAG
Quote P7hk9 "Just do it as a TEAM and not as Master Chief."
update on repairs:
I am not alone in stripped pistons and/or broken teeth either. Speaking of which my sector gear was missing two teeth at opposite sides of the gear from each other it is either a sure sign of the shimming not being as good as I though it was (it is very hard to check the sector gear shimming since the cut off plate blocks it off on the "blind" side of the gearbox) or as was suggestion at MAAPR, my light spring was not forcing the piston into battery fast enough for a 9.6 volt battery considering the pneumatic blow back puts some resistance to this. Anyway I replaced the damaged G&G gear with a spare TM sector gear I had laying around and installed the G&G reinforced piston, the stock piston heads (which has a huge spring pad) and a PDI 150% spring, it is chronoing 377-380 on my "budget" chrongraph, we will see what it does out at the field.
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low observability, high firepower, high drag, low speed
3rd platoon Highlanders!, machine gunner Do NOT anger the forum Illuminati, please search first Team STAG
Quote P7hk9 "Just do it as a TEAM and not as Master Chief."
