As many of you know, I have been becoming increasingly disenfranchised with airsoft and the actions of players lately. I feel that too many of you refuse to work as a team and are out there living your own personal action movie/video game on the field. I feel that this BS is NOT what airsoft is about, and I'm certain that it's ruining the game for me and those who feel the same way. However, I've decided I'm not ready to give up on airsoft just yet. You may be lollers, but you are my lollers, dammit! There may still be hope for you yet.
So, to encourage most of you to "see the light" and play as a team and put the objective first, Randy and I are creating a new group called C3 "Special" Operations. This will be an Invitation Only group of people that want to take their game to the next level. There will be no cost for membership, all costs will be covered by Randy and myself. Members of the group will enjoy the following benefits:
Get a cool Patch
Have a cool new color for their forum name
Have a cool new forum rank
Be eligible in a twice-yearly drawing to win a new AEG
Be invited to special "Loller-Free" game days at PL
A spiffy personalized membership card
A 5% discount off of airsoft and paintball guns at Montgomeryville Army-Navy, and 10% off everything else!
Now, I'm sure many of you are thinking "What a bunch of elitist pricks!" I can assure you that is not the case. All players will still be allowed to play any type of game they want to play. If your idea of a good time is hiding behind a rock and making up tales of your battlefield awesomeness, go right ahead! As long as you aren't unsafe, I will have no problem with you. However, if you want to play as a team and use tactics, and can demonstrate that desire on the field, consider this group as an added bonus.
As important as what this group is, it's also important to note what this group is not.
It is not a group of OMFG OPERATORLOL players
It's not the next incarnation of Shadow Company
It's not a group of gung-ho milsim players
It's not a team (but teams will be encouraged to join)
There will be no gear requirements
There will be no weapon requirements
It's just going to be a bunch of players that want to play a more tactical game.
This group is open to everyone that wants to play a smarter, more tactical game. Although Randy and I are C3 Staff members, being Staff is not a guaranteed invitation to the group. Being an awesome player is not required, either. I'd be a hypocrite if I let myself in if it were a requirement. We'll still be on the Short Bus of Airsoft, but our bus is going to have tracks and machine guns! Or maybe spinners :P
The group will be all about two things: Teamwork and tactics. If you want to be a member, I challenge you to start putting forth a little bit more effort on the field. The original members (myself, Randy, and about seven others who I will be PMing soon) will be watching for you. Remember, the group is Invitation Only, so Don't PM me about joining. We will PM you if we are interested.
Great Idea Lou.
I just pisses me off when I see 5 players hiding behind those tanks while others try to use fire&flank tactics.
Hopefully many people will show leadership during our big game coming up.
I know I will.
__________________
This rifle is your lifeline, make friends with it for it will return in favor a wonderful act of defense towards your life or your comrades life. -Uncle Val R.I.P -USMC vietnam vet.
Great Idea Lou.
I just pisses me off when I see 5 players hiding behind those tanks while others try to use fire&flank tactics.
Hopefully many people will show leadership during our big game coming up.
I know I will.
"Leadership" is but one aspect of the game. Mostly it's about being selfless and putting the mission first. If taking a BB for the team gets the them one step closer to accomplishing the mission, then so be it. If being a distraction is what is required to complete your objective, then so be it. The distraction force won't get the glory that the main force will, but the mission will get done!
That's what I'm looking for. More "us", less "me, me, me."
Hopefully everyone will put in a lot more effort to work as a team now (myself included) regardless of whether they thought they had done enough before. But saying we will on the forum means nothing unless we show it on the field, so let's make sure we do that.
__________________
"A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you, fails, and then asks you not to shoot him."- Winston Churchill
Now you give us a fun reason to make teamwork happen! Im gonna try my best, but I gotta get to a few games first!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by P7hk9
Also, the "Shift" key is the one that makes capital letters. You've been ignoring it, and it's feelings are hurt. Please start using it when you post here.
__________________
96.4% of teens would die if Abercrombie and Fitch or Hollister said that it was "uncool" to breathe. Put this in your sig if you would be 1 of the 3.6% that would die from laughing.
Good Idea Lou I like it, I always thought that C3 should be more tactical instead of lollers with a knife and effeminate uber cool gun running around the field. Ever since going to OP Shutdown and seeing the teamwork involved, I was like wow, that was the best tactics induced airsoft game I have ever played and want C3 people to have the same experience.
Location: I dont know I am to busy listning to led zeppelin
Posts: 1,160
Doubletom he means that you cant ask to join. If they see that you are putting forth effort in the game and being tactical then they will ask you to join.
__________________
96.4% of teens would die if Abercrombie and Fitch or Hollister said that it was "uncool" to breathe. Put this in your sig if you would be 1 of the 3.6% that would die from laughing.
I think this is one of the best ideas I've seen in awhile. Even if I'm never invited, if it brings people to work for it on the field, we can only all benefit.
Teamwork and tactics are the only reasons airsoft is fun for me. Unfortunately it seems to come at rare moments of time in most cases. I hope this works out, it certainly looks great on paper.
I think it's a good idea, when I play I see alot of people who just play for themsleves and not the team. They don't use team work and don't help the team.
__________________
:quagmire: " We didn't land on Plymouth Rock, Plymouth Rock landed on us" :quagmire:
Last edited by XxM4a1killerxX : 11-15-2009 at 09:31 PM.
I remember when I brought a friend once we teamed up with 3 other guys and did a pretty good castle assault. I don't mind the idea, but I don't think I've played enough to join.
This is actually giving me an incentive to go out there and do what I seem to do naturally. Bring attention...and fire to myself. A LOT of fire.
Only if the mission calls for it. If we don't need a distraction, that's lolling behavior
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcommando
I remember when I brought a friend once we teamed up with 3 other guys and did a pretty good castle assault. I don't mind the idea, but I don't think I've played enough to join.
Again, you don't join on your own. It's invitation only.
And you may not be considered now. This group is just incentive to improve your game.
I really hope this idea proves to be fruitful, The more complex we can make the games, the more fun they will be. And there needs to be more coordination and more "US" mentality for that to happen.
__________________ DARK LIQUID, do the stanky leg.
Sponsored by Gucci Mane, Burrr.
Lou, Just a suggestion, Why not create a separate "Private Forums" for C.3.S.O? It would certainly sweeten the deal a little bit; Being on the inside with all of the other elitist pricks lucky members might seem like a decent bonus on top of the patch, etc. etc. And also would provide a good basis for discussing tactics/strategies.
Great idea. The only reason i started playing airsoft was because i saw how my friends were using tactics. Just wish i could go to PL more often, or at all. (I especially like ambush tactics) too bad that could get to danger close so it's not used so often. Are you going to have a name for the group? or is it just "C3 Special Operations"?
Are your chances of being invited not good if you don't come to games often, or is it just depending upon whether you be a team player and use real tactics, no matter how many games you come to on a regular basis?
__________________
"When eliminated, at your discretion, you may feign real death for added realism. To do this, simply lie down and stop moving." 21st Airsoft Marine Division
Lou, Just a suggestion, Why not create a separate "Private Forums" for C.3.S.O? It would certainly sweeten the deal a little bit; Being on the inside with all of the other elitist pricks lucky members might seem like a decent bonus on top of the patch, etc. etc. And also would provide a good basis for discussing tactics/strategies.
There is no luck to this. Invitations are not based on skill or a lottery. It's based on your enthusiasm to actually play the game the way it's meant to be played.
Quote:
Are your chances of being invited not good if you don't come to games often, or is it just depending upon whether you be a team player and use real tactics, no matter how many games you come to on a regular basis?
No, you don't have to show up every week, it doesn't take every game for me or the others to see your play style.
I happen to enjoy not just running around aimlessly and shooting anything coming from the wrong direction. I look forward to seeing a more organized C3 next games I'm out to.
__________________
Like the comforting caress of a lover or a friend you've always known
It invokes such pain and significance, what was once is reduced to remembrance
There is no luck to this. Invitations are not based on skill or a lottery. It's based on your enthusiasm to actually play the game the way it's meant to be played.
It wasn't meant to make any one player feel more "skilled" than another, I just figured it would be one small boost to the already great incentive you guys have provided us.
Are your chances of being invited not good if you don't come to games often, or is it just depending upon whether you be a team player and use real tactics, no matter how many games you come to on a regular basis?
I would think it would be on how you PLAY when you PLAY. Not how well your "Chair Soft skill are. Besides, If you dont really play that often, why give a crap?
__________________
"C3 Special Operations"
...If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?
If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective!
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience!
Lou, Just a suggestion, Why not create a separate "Private Forums" for C.3.S.O? It would certainly sweeten the deal a little bit
Way ahead of you. Look in the Team Section.
Though the group has it's own private area, it will be used primarily for the group's administration. Stuff like tactics and teamwork should be discussed in the general forums for all to see. Remember, the goal of this group is to get everyone playing a smarter game.
Tactics....the reason I started to airsoft. Paintball to me was just bum rushing gauntlets of opposing teams. But ever since i started to airsoft...its been the same....bum rushing gaunlets of teams with replica bb guns. This will hopefully change the attitude and the "I" to "we/us" motive.
__________________
This rifle is your lifeline, make friends with it for it will return in favor a wonderful act of defense towards your life or your comrades life. -Uncle Val R.I.P -USMC vietnam vet.
Well, the main problem I have noticed in airsoft in general, both while playing at C3 events and attending events back here in Ohio, is that people come onto the field with the idea of using tactics, and will openly discuss tactics.
However, because these people do not practice together or play on the same side as each other that often, they quickly fall out of the niche. This is why you see airsoft teams, which usually are composed of a group of friends who know each other, know each other's play style and advantages, and have played in games enough to know what they are doing using tactics while others run around.
Because of this, the idea of using tactics quickly fades. We see the tactics used right away in the game, but as the BBs start flying and people start getting excited of finally getting into the fray, they lose track of their original mindset and quickly go into a more agitated mindset of getting to the front lines as quickly as possible to shoot at people.
It's something you often see in real life also. Less trained individuals are more likely to get excited and charge mindlessly into things or hide, while the trained or seasoned ones stay back and think things through. Eventually, these 'vets' end up being something along the lines of 'leading by example' and that's when you start seeing organization and cooperation.
Honestly, a little program like this would and probably will do a lot of good amongst the community. Those who can lead by example will become examples for other to follow. Not only with the mind set of "Man, I want to be a part of his group!" but also along the lines of "Wow, those guys are cool/mature/play really thoughtfully" etc, and more people will have a desire to show an example of themselves to join up.
Recentely in OP: Prometheus Glory I say that alot of the squads were seperated and jumbled up, I think this will improve this by communicating more and being more "tatical" and less "loller.
__________________
96.4% of teens would die if Abercrombie and Fitch or Hollister said that it was "uncool" to breathe. Put this in your sig if you would be 1 of the 3.6% that would die from laughing.
Tactics, even in the simplest game can help you team out a lot. Yesterday at PL the game was to capture the helicopter and hold for 15 minutes. Me and this other guy (sorry if i didn't give you credit i just have no idea who you are) made a great plan to cut off the other team and get to the objective ASAP, and by cutting off the other team, we get more time to hold the objective. And at the same time I was to hide in the helicopter and just stay there and hold the objective. AND OUR PLAN WORKED, until the person holding off the other team died and I died.
But after that we all split up and went everywhere. Thus leaving us unorganized, and not using tactics to take down the team inside the helicopter. Easly 3 or 4 of us grouped together could take down the helicopter. This example here shows that by using tactics and team work it is eayser and less stressful to win a game. So when we see 1 man armies trying to win the game by themselves, they our bound to FAIL.
Paintball is just charging and killing, airsoft is to simulate a military situation with fake guns but real tactics. If we take away our tactics we are just paintballers with better guns. And like I said, "airsoft is to simulate a military situation with fake guns but real tactics" if you are a 1 man army in the military, YOUR GOING TO DIE REALLY FAST!
Ginsley, paintball is not just charging and shooting...so far my paintball team and the scenarios i have gone to have had the best use of tactics so far. But you are defiantly right... the experience of airsoft would be 10x better if we use tactics and "1" man army is the equivalent to suicide man.
__________________
This rifle is your lifeline, make friends with it for it will return in favor a wonderful act of defense towards your life or your comrades life. -Uncle Val R.I.P -USMC vietnam vet.
this is a good idea, but have you re-considered training? make it manditory? offer discounts to those who take safety/tactics training?
making the games more serious by enforcing less loller activity and more serious mindsets comes from organized trainings.
from my experience those encourage and enhance the overall games.
i know you've had bad experiences with trainings but to ellevate your games you may want to reconsider, and make it appealing to those who attend.
We are transitioning not only to safety training but DMR, Sniper, Rifleman, Medic, Marshal, and Leadership trainings from our A.C.T. program.
We offer discounts at airsim games to those who attend just to reward the time and effort for each player.
Just something to consider. I know you want the quality, this is just one avenue of approach.
Heck, if you want me to assist you and bring my training team down we'll do it for you, so you can turn it into something specific to your needs later on...
either way its a step in the right direction kudos!
this is a good idea, but have you re-considered training? make it manditory? offer discounts to those who take safety/tactics training?
making the games more serious by enforcing less loller activity and more serious mindsets comes from organized trainings.
from my experience those encourage and enhance the overall games.
i know you've had bad experiences with trainings but to ellevate your games you may want to reconsider, and make it appealing to those who attend.
We are transitioning not only to safety training but DMR, Sniper, Rifleman, Medic, Marshal, and Leadership trainings from our A.C.T. program.
We offer discounts at airsim games to those who attend just to reward the time and effort for each player.
Just something to consider. I know you want the quality, this is just one avenue of approach.
Heck, if you want me to assist you and bring my training team down we'll do it for you, so you can turn it into something specific to your needs later on...
either way its a step in the right direction kudos!
Sorry, after watching Hotel Sierra's footage... I can say with certainty that airsoft "Training" is a useless endeavor. It's good for an ego boost, but nothing more. I got to sift through over 12 hours of footage recorded (sadly, they only recorded the first mission for us, but I got every camera angle possible) and you know what I saw?
Sitting. Lots....and lots.... of sitting. Both teams ran to the buildings...and then sat. In fact so much so that with 12 hours of footage... it boiled down to less than 3 MINUTES of useful montage video.
Let's do the math on that:
17 multi-story buildings
50+ cameras
100 players
2 hour mission
----------------------
3 minutes of useable footage
Yikes.
And with the roster the way it was, I cannot simply sit back say "well it was the usual Lolling crowd." It wasn't. Everyone came from all over. And those that wanted to move... did...and were immediately mowed down by those that didn't want to move.
now i have to disagree. One very experienced soldier who was in, or still in special operations can easily take down dozens of enemies if the situation is right. But do any of us qualify for that? When in doubt always use the buddy system. Obviously teamwork is crucial, but there will be times where you need to know how to use tactics on your own. Like when your left alone by your team mates, or if your team just doesn't have enough people. From what i hear many people go to each game. Enough so that people shouldn't run around being cocky, but i guess i was wrong about that.
MOUT style and woodland style tactics are two different sides of a coin.
I guess I've only had positive results from all the trainings we have here in NJ.
And most people who don't know tactics, benefit from it other than just dropping them in the middle of the field as bb fodder. it allows for more questions, more refinement, and pointing someone in the right direction. maybe they are more apt to learn other than asking questions on the forums.
maybe you have had too many lollers around ... which is sad... cause i know that this forum has alot of honorable great players...
MOUT style and woodland style tactics are two different sides of a coin.
I guess I've only had positive results from all the trainings we have here in NJ.
And most people who don't know tactics, benefit from it other than just dropping them in the middle of the field as bb fodder. it allows for more questions, more refinement, and pointing someone in the right direction. maybe they are more apt to learn other than asking questions on the forums.
maybe you have had too many lollers around ... which is sad... cause i know that this forum has alot of honorable great players...
Your system is great for people that want to learn. People that understand what a team game entails and are willing to play as a team member can't NOT benefit from your training. Based on my observations, the majority of the player base at C3 isn't there yet.
We DO have the most difficult hurdle already behind us...our player base is one of the most honest and honorable I've seen when it comes to calling hits. I just want them to work together a little bit. Battle-buddies, an overall plan, I'll be happy.
MOUT style and woodland style tactics are two different sides of a coin.
I think I might've muddled up my own point (yay me). My point wasn't that tactics weren't correctly used or anything like that, but rather they were not employed. So, the conclusion I have is: having classes won't eliminate the problem I saw and am seeing (which was/is the sitting).
You can have the most tactical training in the world, but when you're sitting.... you are about as tactical as a turret.
I'm not opposed to the training or anything like that, but it needs to be in the mindset of the player to actively participate in the game and not wait for his team to clear the area for him or be too afraid to move because the BBs might hit him.
Without that mindset, the classes are pretty much useless. Knowing the tactics doesn't seem to be an automatic transition to using the tactics.
Quote:
I guess I've only had positive results from all the trainings we have here in NJ.
And most people who don't know tactics, benefit from it other than just dropping them in the middle of the field as bb fodder. it allows for more questions, more refinement, and pointing someone in the right direction. maybe they are more apt to learn other than asking questions on the forums.
No argument. When you're not getting shot at and you are there to "learn", it's much easier to get the instruction you're after and have it better sink in.
Quote:
maybe you have had too many lollers around ... which is sad... cause i know that this forum has alot of honorable great players...
I'll one up you: this forum is MOSTLY, if not all, made up honorable and great players. It's why this little hiding thing is so frustrating. Because I don't have to really worry about people not calling their hits here or worry about the other annoying stuff that is usually associated with airsoft.
All the big problems are gone, so this, admittedly, small problem is getting my full attention.
It's like driving down the highway in a nice car on a beautiful day, and you catch a pebble on your windshield and chips it. All things considered, it's small. But it pisses ya off.
It takes the "learn to be better" part of training, and removes the whole "effort required on behalf of trainer" part. Plus, it will encourage newbies to think for themselves how to work as a team, which is much more effective than being talked at by someone else.
/But what happened to "C3PO"?
__________________ Speak only if it improves upon the silence. -Mohandas Ghandi Quit fapping to your guns and get on the damn field!
RJ, if this group works out and we can get our people to start working together, we might take you up on your training offer. Right now, it's just too advanced for most.
It is my great pleasure to announce that Montgomeryville Army-Navy will be offering a discount to members of C3 Special Operations! The discount will be as follows:
5% off of airsoft and paintball guns
10% off everything else
Now, you have an even better reason to put forth some effort on the field.
ATTENTION 
