What can we do?

[ChAoS]

I always hear about all the bad news concerning airsoft. And I don't know about you guys but I am actually really tired of it. I really think that we should do more to get good news for airsoft. I think we should all ask ourselves what we can do to create more positive news for airsoft. I feel that as representatives for C3 airsoft its our responsibility to do what is needed to help strengthen our beloved sport. Anyway I hope that we can get some creative discussion from this thread. Hopefully we can get something positive going with this.

[Jeep]

Obey the rules here, discourage back yard airsoft by educating friends who may still backyard airsoft and being responsible with our airsoft replicas.

[Janster]

Is there any national Airsoft Associations or Affiliations that promote responsible airsoft? or even national Paintball Associations?

I'm more rehearsed on the 4X4 and offroad community. We're constantly trying to teach the proper & responsible way to go offroad. But we see trail closures & irresponsibility all the time. There's Tread Lightly, Blue Ribbon Coalition, United 4WD Association, & SEMA (to name a few - sorry, off topic).

[Jeep]

Originally Posted by Janster

Is there any national Airsoft Associations or Affiliations that promote responsible airsoft? or even national Paintball Associations?

I'm more rehearsed on the 4X4 and offroad community. We're constantly trying to teach the proper & responsible way to go offroad. But we see trail closures & irresponsibility all the time. There's Tread Lightly, Blue Ribbon Coalition, United 4WD Association, & SEMA (to name a few - sorry, off topic).

There is a abortive attempt at a national organization but it has not taken root to my knowledge. Closest I have heard of is http://airsoft-news.eu/news.php?870 this airsoft pod cast. There are others but all my links are coming up dead right now, If I can find anything else I'll post it up. There are several good foreign organizations including UKARA (British)

(my trek into off topic)
I have NOT come across any airsoft organization in this country that is any where close to any of these ( Tread Lightly, Blue Ribbon Coalition, United 4WD Association, & SEMA ) fantastic groups. I was former land use officer for PA Jeeps replaced by my good friend Dave Dechristopher when my two years was up. If any of you are unfamiliar with the above organizations they support MULTIPLE USE OF PUBLIC LANDS. If you want to continue to enjoy the limited access we had left of public owned wilderness areas you need to become familiar with the issues championed by the above organizations even if you DO NOT like or take part in the hobby of 4 wheeling.

[Janster]

Originally Posted by Jeep

There is a abortive attempt at a national organization but it has not taken root to my knowledge. Closest I have heard of is http://airsoft-news.eu/news.php?870 this airsoft pod cast. There are others but all my links are coming up dead right now, If I can find anything else I'll post it up. There are several good foreign organizations including UKARA (British).

There's a lot of 'heat' surrounding the hobby in terms of legalities - as we all know.

That first exposure is where you set the ground rules for responsibility. Unfortunately, the younger generation aren't thinking about joining an organized group (like C3). Organized groups are the best way to learn the ropes.

This is an interesting website, although pinpointed more towards law enforcement. http://www.fast-us.org/
(the OSHA of airsoft?)

[Sum]

C3 is on the map in a relative way, we are Pennsylvania Central to Eastern. I think inviting Radio Stations and News teams to attend an event would be a step in the right direction.
At LPball, I remember numerous times there was both medias there to cover Pball. Heck, a team mate and I were interviewed by WGAL 8, "12:30 LIVE." We reported to the Carlisle Sports Emporium for the interview. They had director chairs set up for us and Lori Burkholder (reporter.)
The News station also came to the field and filmed us playing Pball. The reporter that covered that put on the gear and played alittle and they filmed that also.
They took all that footage and other footage from Laser Tag and Go karts and made a piece on recreational events in the local area.

I also remember doing fund raisers at the field and radio shows broadcasted during it. Offer money to some local charity from a big event, call the news and radio station and we then get exposure. The classic rock station I listen to, always seem to do events. The DJs like to talk smack to the other DJs and they settle it on the field. Let them borrow equipment and buy them BBs and Wa-Lah!

[P7hk9]

I don't know much about that website, but I do know that the REAL problem with airsoft organizations is that everyone wants to be in charge, and there is too much BS infighting between the groups because of egos. Unfortunately, most of the people that trumpet "It's for the good of airsoft" really mean "It's what I want to do, and my way is best".

In my opinion, most places sacrifice player safety to appeal to the high-FPS crowd, and that can only lead to trouble for the sport. Airsoft will never get widespread insurance regulation like the paintball industry, either. Field owners aren't going to devote their resources to airsoft because it isn't as profitable as paintball. This leads me to my point: Airsoft can be regulated by two groups: Government or the players. We don't want government involved, but if the players (in general) don't stop doing stupid **** with airsoft guns, government cannot help but get involved.

And to contrast Sum's point, I don't feel the media is the answer. Which headline will sell more, "Airsoft event enjoyed responsibly", or "Airsoft: Terrorist training in your back yard".

[Rjaniz]

Sad fact is Airsoft will get no where until there is a unified set of rules set forth, and airsoft develops a profitable business model. Right now, it makes little to no money, and everyone does what they want or what they can get away with. And there are plenty of idiots out there who do not want to see a unified set of rules because that would make their dangerous style of play "illegal."

There's been a few attempts to setup a national league, but it mostly involves people who's only goal is to "be in charge" and not really push the hobby farther than where it is.

To be fair, it is incredibly difficult: this hobby attracts a lot of morons. To set something up will be about as equal in task as setting up an actual government for a nation. And most likely, if something does go national, we could look at a significant increase in cost for playing airsoft.

But until that happens, I don't see airsoft coming up from the underground. Not to mention we scare the living bejeezus out of parents.

Best thing you can do is basically what jeep said. Don't be stupid and help others not to be stupid.

EDIT:

In my opinion, most places sacrifice player safety to appeal to the high-FPS crowd, and that can only lead to trouble for the sport.

That's not opinion, that's fact. Even companies like Echo1 realize that this is the case. It is why their guns come hot right out of the box.

[ChAoS]

Your right, i just wish we could take a more proactive approach, is there anyway that we can maybe generate some positive media and to educate the masses about C3 airsoft and promote our cause. Not to mention help combat the negative media the "Morons" that threaten to ruin our sport.

[DoubleTom]

well the U.S. Goverment could issue an Airsoft licence "card" that at every Airsoft purchace you sould present.years old--- 18+ just need card 10-18 cardd and parent. well it just an Idea. oh and to get a licence you have to belong to an organazation like C3 or a inssured feild. To keep loons like we hear always about, away.

[Jeep]

Originally Posted by DoubleTom

well the U.S. Goverment could issue an Airsoft licence "card" that at every Airsoft purchace you sould present.years old--- 18+ just need card 10-18 cardd and parent. well it just an Idea. oh and to get a licence you have to belong to an organazation like C3 or a inssured feild. To keep loons like we hear always about, away.

This is precisely what has happened in England and a lot of other countries. This is why UKARA came about. I don't thinks its a idea solution to problems, does not do anything to prevent crime or idiocy and is yet another one of my freedoms that would be surrendered to the idea that it would be good for society. Next you would want my real guns.

It has been said that government can not and should not TRY to regulate stupidity, ideas like above mean that they will continue to try to.

[ChAoS]

Oh i absolutely agree with Jeep, the last thing i need is some government agencies who, have no idea about airsoft start getting involved, the key part of this whole thing is what can we do to be more proactive to help strengthen our sport, key word in that is "we" as in members of C3 airsoft, not the goverment.


The governments idea of fun is not airsoft, its counting all their money and making laws, So i don't think they are the best people to get involved in our sport

[freakboy]

I totaly agree with the airsoft license but the only problem with that I see is how would we get that started. For example How could we prevent hongkong based websites from selling to random people.

[Jeep]

Originally Posted by freakboy

I totaly agree with the airsoft license but the only problem with that I see is how would we get that started. For example How could we prevent hongkong based websites from selling to random people.

WE are truly DOOMED!

The government can not and should not try to regulate stupidity, the only thing a license is going to do is cost me money or ban airsoft all together, It has not been successful at limiting crime in the countries that has adopted regulations. Those of you that are under 18, would be excluded entirely. YOU can't prevent the sale to minors unless you have a license ON FILE with a retailer, the government and the field you play at, which is what the UK was forced to do last year.

I am total opposed to anything that impinges on my rights and freedoms. Why would the government regulate replica toy fire arms with out regulating REAL fire arms? Which some members of our government have been trying to do for years.

[Wolf]

Besides, regulations like those proposed, as much as they could help, may also lead to something like what's been imposed in AUS and NZ. For example, all automatic Airsoft guns are illegal. The only legal ones available to them in the country are sold as Semi only.

[Janster]

Again, going back to my offroading hobby (Jeep can relate to this).

Our offroad club has what we call "Wheelin 101" events. This takes totally new people and stock (unmodified) vehicles out on the easy trails to expose them to the hobby. We give them a lecture about the safety, trail etiquette, and driving and coach them along the way. In most cases - they're extremely amazed at the capabilties of their vehicles and they have a blast!

On a smaller scale, have an event specifically designed for the new players & first timers.
An Open day - perhaps offer renting or borrowing of guns & goggles. Safety, safety, more safety lectures. Use a buddy system - a group of new folks with an experienced one. Tactical classes, target shooting, and give them an idea of what types of scenarios they will experience.

Obviously, there's a lot of work & planning involved with something like this. Depending on how its approached - might be limited to certain age groups and having staff with a lot of patience. Advertising would be key to having a big (attendees) event. Did I mention, there'd need to be lots of staff (with lots of patience)? I can only imagine, something like this would only attract large amounts of younger people. That could be good and it could be bad.

[Jeep]

we have tried tactics classes during normal weekend games, most people are not into it and would rather play normally, Although, having done a couple jeep 101s before + camp jeep 2005 guide I would be willing to give a airsoft 101 a try as a instructor (but not lead). I noticed at LP a few weeks ago that the milsim paintball club was asking a bunch of questions maybe a airsoft 101 at each field would benefit us as ambassadors with the painball players we share the fields with. If (and I mean IF) we decide to go with this what do we need to cover?

1.Who are we, our rules on the field and forum. The differences between airsoft and paint (pain) ball including ranges, and attitude (there is a very big difference in attitude between airsoft and milsim paintball, I had trouble wrapping my head around it when I started)
(we would be capturing a bigger player base)

2. eye protection/ face protection/ safety

3. liability and responsibility and the laws

4. replicas, batteries, manufacture quality, upgrades

5. roles and gear

6. tactics and game play.

7. other information.

The thing is ALL of this is already available in the stickies of this forum. I am nor sure we need to go forth like missionaries and look for trouble, some times you find head hunters.

[choffman10]

I know a game out in CA had a '101 game' for all new airsofters. I believe there was a rather large turn out too.


This seems like the best idea so far, but the problem would how to advertise it - I mean 99% of backyard airsofters have no clue about sanctioned airsoft (And I'm not talking about the idiots that just want to shoot civilians, animals, etc.)

[precisionstrike]

In NJ we have what we call A.C.T.- Airsoft Combat Training. It's like your 101 course suggestion.

it goes over the basics for noobs to the advanced/leadership training for vets.

we held one over the summer where we had 80 participants and each of those 80 I've had no problems with on the field weather noob or vet.

we will have more next year as our playerbase grows.


To suggest something about the national regulations.

it starts with community to community. it is the ability to have a vision that goes past local and onto national.

that's what we're hopefully doing here slowly but surely as we go to each others games, meet others in other communities hopefully when the oportunity is right we can get together and agree on unified rules and a set of standards.

i have no problem with compromise and an agreement on rules and standards.
it does start with those of us who produce games and want to elevate the standards of each of it's players in it's playerbase.

if they want to play at our games they need to follow our standards...

anyway.. just dropping in to say we in NJ are looking at the same goals in mind.

[Rjaniz]

Having unified rules is fine, but it also needs to be rules the general populace won't look at and go "Those suckas are out of their minds!"

Airsoft in this area isn't exactly the shining example of safety. Far too much BYA, disregard for safety, and disregard for rules in general plagues airsoft in the area (and, I guess, in most of the country, really). But far too many players are allowed to carry on that behavior because there aren't enough people willing to take a stand if it means sacrificing the almighty dollar or maybe not being someone's favorite place to go or play with.

And it certainly doesn't help when some game organizers develop and boast games where the loadout is tailored to what they own and not what is safe, or safety is sacrificed to accommodate a gimmick or playstyle.

[precisionstrike]

you can only change one player at a time.

there will always be back yard airsoft. it's an unfortuneate fact.

I would assume it's worse at PA since there is sooo much more open space to play on.

start small.. change is always that way..

sometimes staying the course is the best possible thing you can do.

[Rjaniz]

Originally Posted by precisionstrike

there will always be back yard airsoft. it's an unfortuneate fact.

I would assume it's worse at PA since there is sooo much more open space to play on.

start small.. change is always that way..

sometimes staying the course is the best possible thing you can do.

I agree, BYA will always be around, but the fact that it's deemed acceptable by many people is a problem. Especially when there are viable fields now. 10 years ago, I could understand it. Hell, hardly anyone knew of airsoft at all and the only way you could play was BYA. But now... just so not the case anymore. Airsoft has come such a long way in so short a time. Still, a lot of people think BYA is perfectly harmless and believe everyone who disagrees are fools. It was great when AirsoftNJ decided to ban it from their boards as well in 2007. I think it was a major step in the right direction.

It could very well be worse here, I honestly couldn't even hazard a guess. But judging what I've seen on other forums from the area... I'd venture to say you're right.

We've all started small, and I do think the change is happening, don't get me wrong. In just the 6 years we've been around I've seen a weekly group of 10 people explode to weekly group of 50. I've seen fields where, years ago, we couldn't even possibly hope to play on, welcome airsoft with open arms. I mean, the USANA field? Geeze, could you imagine playing on that slice of awesome even 2 years ago? And MOUT facilities were the stuff left for daydreams and hopeful wishes.

But as much progress as we have made, I don't want to see a ruleset put forth and declared official that is going to make insurance companies and newcomers scoff. Because, then we won't be able to get fields or the players and that sends us right back to BYA and it's problems.

[Spetsnaz]

Be VERY careful in dealing with the media.

The media is a very unforgiving and vicious beast. I have seen the media promise much only to backstab. A few years back we had a media station in Ohio interview and film some airsofters. The interview started off fantastic and hit out some of the rules, had an interview with a player and his family, then it just struck into the dirt about how this is 'training people for combat' and how realistic the guns are. They turned it from a great story to a circus.

Remember this:

In the media, bad news is good news.

Two stories happen the same day. One involving a police officer saving someone's life, the other involving a white police officer using a taser on a black man and sparks controversy due to the method it was used and the situation it was used in. Sure, this is not airsoft related, but it's getting to a point here;

A police officer saving someone's life will not likely run on the news because the news will dig up into the whole 'conspiracy' of possible police brutality and possible racist activity on the police force. They will get their whole 'Investigation' team in on it and blurt out random garbage when they were not even at the scene and have no clue what actually took place.

This can and WILL happen to airsoft on the news. If you guys ever deal with the media on regards of airsoft you all need to be extremely cautious and you need to be breathing over their shoulder ever second.

Why do you think we always see "Airsoft/Soft Air/Toy gun used in robbery/caused police shooting/caused panic" and not "Airsoft is teaching teamwork, getting people outdoors and is a fun hobby similar to paintball."

Because bad news is good news.

Avoid saying things such as...

• War.
• Combat.
• Training.
• Combat simulation.
• Realistic.
• Replica firearms.
• Weapon.

While these are all words we are familiar with in our community these are words that they will have an absolute hayday over.

All it takes is someone to tell the crew. "Airsoft is more realistic than paintball because the guns look real and we are doing combat simulation. Law enforcement and the military have even been using airsoft to train!"

Then the crew spots one of our younger members on the field and the next thing you know airsoft is training children how to fight in wars, kill people, and learning how to use real guns by using replicas.

Airsoft should be stressed out like this.

• Very similar to paintball, just different projectiles and guns.
• Stresses on teamwork.
• Great social event.
• Provides players exercise and getting outdoors.
• Teaches responsibility and safety.
• Suitable only for certain ages. (Avoid saying 'kids' keep to the 'adults' and 'teenagers'. )
• Stress that players under 18 play under adult supervision!
• Strict safety and conduct rules.

And...I think you get the picture.

Dealing with the media for attention is both a great tool and a horrible one. The media can give you absolutely awesome exposure to the world but they can also rip you apart. They can film and talk nice and show a great front, but when you turn on the six 'o clock news you just may be in for a shock of your life as you and your hobby are shown as nothing but war hungry teenagers out to play combat and shoot people.

If C3 ever gets involved with a media source, I highly advise taking all cautions, talking to them in person BEFORE they come out to one of the games, and stressing that our hobby is not all about just shooting people and running around with replicas of real guns that shoot plastic BBs.

[Janster]

Please pardon - bringing up an old thread.

Just this week I read two articles in the local paper about violence & paintball/BB guns.

Someone did a drive-by shooting towards some cars in a dealer lot. Nobody got hurt and the cars weren't damaged - luckily.

Another involved two individuals knocking on the door of a residents home. As the owners peered out the window, they got shot in the head with a BB (BB gun). The two individuals fled the area. Nobody was hurt and the owners didn't get any medical attention.

Obviously, this is what I read in the paper and could be skewed to the actual truth. The media is already out there creating bad press towards these hobbies already. It's just a shame we can't put forth some 'good press' somehow.

[Ownage-milk]

I'm thinking that its not airsoft that is the problem. Its the random idiots out there using airsoft guns in public and abusing what they are really ment for.
As someone said in a few posts up, we can only change one player at a time.

[ChAoS]

The good media kind of stuff that i've been thinking about is stuff like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bakLb55C1SA

[WWIII_USMC]

You know what you can do. You can forget the biased, one-way media and do something to better THIS community. There is no point in trying to spread airsoft to the masses when half the people playing now are idiots (read: BYA'ers, lollers, and Space Marines. Not directed towards anyone in particular. You'll know whether or not you fall into one of these categories.).

Stop beating a dead horse and focus this energy into doing something to better this community. When local airsoft communities get their shat together, then positive press will appear. Until then you are blowing smoke up a pipe dream.