Contrary to what negative rep poster two said, somebody did in fact say something, negative rep poster one did.
And contrary to what negative rep poster number one thinks, somebody was in fact interested in my status for the OP, they just didn't post it on the OP thread.
My other concerns are that...
Whoever left the 2nd negative rep is clearly somebody who frequents C3 as it counted as 100points or so, and they are speaking in IM speak, which I thought was a "no-no"
I cannot settle this matter through PMs due to rep being ANONYMOUS
Over all I think our reputation system is just a bad idea and a conduit for "trolling." It encourages favoritism, once you get good rep it seems that your opinion is respected more and good rep follows. And the anonymous system allows people to give you negative rep that they would never admit to giving in a million years!
Sure we say that "rep means nothing" but that is coming from Admins with infinitely positive reputation, plus their opinions already matter. In truth, reputation does mean something, I know for a fact that I sometimes question information given to me from people with "red dots" under their name, if I don't know that person in real life. (E.G. If I saw Maverick with negative rep I'd still hold his info as credible since he is a tech guy)
All in all, I think our reputation system leads to more problems than solutions and it needs to be revamped and it needs to be utilized for less malignant intentions.
This is very close to crying about rep, If you take the time to go slumming in the trash forum you will find some other threads exactly like this one. I am going to repost one of my early responses on what the rep system is for in my opinion:
"This is quoted for truth! I have been part of this community for quite awhile now. If anything some of the moderation has if anything mellowed. Have I been neged? lots of times. Did I think I deserved some of those negs and infractions, NOPE, not all of them, but most of my bone headed post come after 14 hr day work around 2 am, and I have learned to pretty much not post then, I usually deserved it.
Also I used to worry a lot more about the the rep system, because some people do actually judge you as person and my personal honor IS important to me. But you know what. Internet rep is pretty much worthless, it is much more important to be judged by your actions on the field. There is a learning curve in this community, the rep system is feed back to help a newer user to learn what is acceptable and what is not. Most member with neg rep come around, some do not and they either have very poor rep or they leave. Personally, I try to give positive rep as much as possible, positive reinforcement. I usually only give negative rep if it is really really egregious, stupid or uncalled for. Most neg rep can be traced back not following a rule or not searching out a answer first.
Also the heavy moderation keeps this group organized, on topic and safe. If you have any doubts about what could be, you need to visit some other forums and go slumming in the trash forum. You'll even see some of my post there. If your post are there (in trash), there is a good reason and you should maybe try to figure out why. "
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low observability, high firepower, high drag, low speed Do NOT anger the forum Illuminati, please search
Team STAG
Quote P7hk9 "Just do it as a TEAM and not as Master Chief."
Sure we say that "rep means nothing" but that is coming from Admins with infinitely positive reputation, plus their opinions already matter.
Happy now?
Also, Rob, why would you post as Anon to bitch about other people leaving anon rep? If it's good for you, why isn't it OK for them?
Seriously, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Off your meds or something? I don't get it. You seem reasonable, then you get all uppity over something little like this.
/I know it's you because you referenced your post in the trash.
It's not close to crying about rep, it flat out is.
And considering this "anonymous" poster uses the rep to snipe at others, I find it absolutely comical that they are whining when it's not in their favor. So it's only "trolling" when it's not you dealing out the negativity? Got it.
No one asked for you status or opinions about the game in the op thread, so any allusion to such didn't belong there. If no one asked your particular status in the thread, why are you expecting others magically pick up on this? And do you really think that gives you a magical pass? Why were you using the thread as your personal "status update", anyway? You want a website that tracks your every whim, go use facebook or twitter.
Rep's not going to change just because you're butthurt about being called on your crap. Deal with it.
Additionally, language rules (beyond cursing) isn't restricted in rep. You wanna leetspeak it up? You go ahead.
I'm not in anyway saying that the reputation should go. (I think it shouldn't be displayed but then again I'm bias and my opinion on this is automatically invalid to any reader because I have positive rep) But Rob or anon does have a point here and I think we shouldn't disarm it right away. The moderators and everyone who is one the forum is automatically considered bias because we are subject to the rep system that is in discussion as we post right now. Even though Lou very generously changed his rep to red the concept still stands that everybody already knows of the moderators power and that they can change rep at will.
But then again any requests to specifically change any detail of the rep system is probably out of the question because none of the moderators are responsible for the coding.
I'd also like to point out that even though most of us will never admit to it we are all probably pretty scared to post on this thread in fear of getting negative rep.
Location: (Overbrook, the most west hood in Philly) Phildadelphia, PA
Posts: 977
Quote:
Originally Posted by P7hk9
Seriously, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Off your meds or something? .
Yes and yes...I did forget to take one dose of my meds (I'm not kidding either) and I got only 4 hours of sleep and had an argument with my mother right before logging onto C3, all in all a lot went wrong right before arriving to these negative reps...so sorry about whining.
I guess we will see were this goes, I still think our reputation system could use tweaking but now that I think about it, who has time for it?
I posted anonymously since I knew everybody would recognize me as the poster anyway, but I didn't want my name to get caught up in the debate.
I still stand by the belief that reputation shouldn't be anonymous...but no big deal I guess, it is after all colored pixels.
/my mind is back, just needed to cool down
//and my comment in the OP thread was purely me being butt hurt that I couldn't attend the OP
__________________
Philadelphia Hardcore Airsoft Group - Team Founder
Team P.H.A.G. - "We proudly bear our (Combat) cocks!"
C3 "Special" Operations - "Yes, we're better tan you!"
P.A.A.G. East - "Acta non Verba"
“Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain.” - VP
Last edited by GeneralPoraboo : 07-15-2010 at 09:40 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I'm not in anyway saying that the reputation should go. (I think it shouldn't be displayed but then again I'm bias and my opinion on this is automatically invalid to any reader because I have positive rep) But Rob or anon does have a point here and I think we shouldn't disarm it right away. The moderators and everyone who is one the forum is automatically considered bias because we are subject to the rep system that is in discussion as we post right now. Even though Lou very generously changed his rep to red the concept still stands that everybody already knows of the moderators power and that they can change rep at will.
Except it's only been done in 2 cases. Once as a joke, and now this time. After all, wouldn't want to be called "abusive", now would we? The fact that you actually are considering it a generous move is .... odd.
Quote:
But then again any requests to specifically change any detail of the rep system is probably out of the question because none of the moderators are responsible for the coding.
You'd be wrong on that. We can do all sorts of things to it if we so choose (like get a certain amount of neg rep in succession and you are automatically banned, or get below a certain point and are immediately banned, or require negative rep to not require a comment, etc...)
Quote:
I'd also like to point out that even though most of us will never admit to it we are all probably pretty scared to post on this thread in fear of getting negative rep.
/I know I am.
Why would more people need to post on this thread? What is going to be said here that isn't already said? The rep system isn't going anywhere and it's not changing, regardless if 1 doesn't like it or 200 do not like it.
The whole problem here boils down to a want for a double standard. It's OK when someone neg reps someone, but if it turns back on them, suddenly it's a grand injustice.
Not interested in helping that double standard. If there's ACTUAL abuse, that's one thing (like someone negging for the hell of it or going LONG back into a post history and negging). But there was no violation here. It's certainly not going to change because someone is angry about their rep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralPoraboo
Yes and yes...I did forget to take one dose of my meds (I'm not kidding either) and I got only 4 hours of sleep and had an argument with my mother right before logging onto C3, all in all a lot went wrong right before arriving to these negative reps...so sorry about whining.
While I can sympathize, this isn't the place for you to vent. Next time you're in a mood, stay away form the forums. By rules of the CA forum, you should be on a (possibly permanent) time out right now. Your apology, however, is staying our hand.
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I guess we will see were this goes, I still think our reputation system could use tweaking but now that I think about it, who has time for it?
It's not going anywhere, and it's not getting changed. Whether I had time for it or not.
Quote:
I posted anonymously since I knew everybody would recognize me as the poster anyway, but I didn't want my name to get caught up in the debate.
Cause that makes sense.... I guess...
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I still stand by the belief that reputation shouldn't be anonymous...but no big deal I guess, it is after all colored pixels.
....had me and then ya lost me... Bull**** you do. Start signing your negative rep and then make the claim. Until then, shut up
Except it's only been done in 2 cases. Once as a joke, and now this time. After all, wouldn't want to be called "abusive", now would we? The fact that you actually are considering it a generous move is .... odd.
You'd be wrong on that. We can do all sorts of things to it if we so choose (like get a certain amount of neg rep in succession and you are automatically banned, or get below a certain point and are immediately banned, or require negative rep to not require a comment, etc...)
I didn't realize the system was so flexible, apologies for the assumption.
I meant that they could change their own rep, Which seems to happen more than just twice. I don't think I ever called it "abusive"...
Location: (Overbrook, the most west hood in Philly) Phildadelphia, PA
Posts: 977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjaniz
The whole problem here boils down to a want for a double standard. It's OK when someone neg reps someone, but if it turns back on them, suddenly it's a grand injustice.
Not necessarily, I've gotten negative rep that I was fine with, in fact GLAD for, I was given negative rep for spreading inaccurate information, and now I ask myself "is this a proven fact, or am I making it up because it sounds like it could be?" All in all, my primary objective on the forums is generally helping other people, and when my rep helps me do that I am glad, when it is somebody who is just annoyed over something insignificant...I wonder why they gave me negative rep, I suppose it was significant in their mind, so I should just get over it.
__________________
Philadelphia Hardcore Airsoft Group - Team Founder
Team P.H.A.G. - "We proudly bear our (Combat) cocks!"
C3 "Special" Operations - "Yes, we're better tan you!"
P.A.A.G. East - "Acta non Verba"
“Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain.” - VP
The problem I see with making negative comments not anonymous is that some users may retaliate and give users negative comments because they once gave that user a negative rep. Next thing you know, there's a "reputation war," and then those users begin to bring it up during games and what was once simple constructive criticism has become much more.
What we have to remember is that reputation is meant to be helpful. The way I see it, when I receive positive reputation, I can see that what I'm doing is acceptable and I have added useful information to a topic or helped someone, and I should continue to post like this. Conversely, when I receive negative reputation, I understand that some users do not find my post to be of any help or harmful, and I should probably think twice before making another post like the one being negatively commented on.
Heck, if I hadn't received all the negative reputation I did when I first joined this forum, I would most definitely have been banned forever from it. I learned to change how I posted due to these negative comments, and while I may have been mad about receiving them at the time, I sure am thankful now that I got them because they taught me how I should be posting. I'm sure anyone who saw my posts now and then can certainly say I've come a long way.
In a segway from negative rep, trash posts seem to me to be the most flawed and biased form of degradation on here. Negative rep is okay, because it is only displayed between the writer and the recipient. Since this is a thread about changes, change the trash system. In fact, get rid of it and instead just delete the persons post and send them a pointless infraction or PM about why you did it. It's public humiliation when you trash someone's post, which is most of the time followed by a ****storm of negative rep. Most of the time it seems like the mod or admin who trashes it is just on a tirade or bored, and half of the time the post is a joke that people didn't get. Randy.
I would like to respectfully disagree with you Anon. I think the public humiliation aspect of having ones post trashed is actually a very powerful tool. Think of how much less likely one is to create another post that could be trashed when they are still sore from the painful humiliation they suffered from the last trash post they created. It's not the kindest way of reforming someone, but as a recipient of this type of strategy (Not at C3) I have to say it is highly affective and quick, it sure has stopped me from making mistakes over again. Just my 2 cents.
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A.O.G ~ Pirinne Neart. 浪人 - - - - Team Ronin
Less than three Yums.
What seems to be the officer problem? RAAAAAGGGGEEE!!!11!!1!
The problem I see with making negative comments not anonymous is that some users may retaliate and give users negative comments because they once gave that user a negative rep. Next thing you know, there's a "reputation war," and then those users begin to bring it up during games and what was once simple constructive criticism has become much more.
That and when you have names, eventually it goes in one ear and out the other. You start ignoring it because it comes from "that name." With Anonymous, it could be from someone you would normally write off, but because it makes sense.. you actually pay attention to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
It's public humiliation when you trash someone's post
That's.
The.
Whole.
Point.
Quote:
In fact, get rid of it and instead just delete the persons post and send them a pointless infraction or PM about why you did it.
Better idea: Don't. Privately scolding someone rarely works. And then we have to repeat this process over and over and over because the people who violate the rule in the future didn't have any examples to work from.
However, you throw a post in front of everyone as a shining example of what not to do and it works far better. The person who did the wronging will resist wronging again, and those that might have wronged will not wrong because they've seen what is wrong before they wronged.
EDIT: In addition, flat out deleting posts is bad juju. There's been several times where archiving everything has helped us out.
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Most of the time it seems like the mod or admin who trashes it is just on a tirade or bored, and half of the time the post is a joke that people didn't get. Randy.
No, 100% of the time the mod that trashed it is completely justified and the thread/post was beyond stupid and/or violated rules. If they're not... it's rectified. But, I'm sure you don't notice that because you're too busy raging your post got trashed.
Just because your crap got trashed doesn't make the staff suddenly "bored or on a tirade". You ****ed up when your post/thread ends up in the trash. Man up and take responsibility.
If you TRULY don't understand, send a PM off asking exactly why it was sent to the garbage. I, and the rest of the staff, will be happy to explain (so long as it's not brutally obvious).
Look, Anon, rep can be good and bad. If someone is negging you because they don't like you then that's just douchey. But, say you are making a bunch of stupid posts or uselesss posts and people are giving you a HINT to improve yourself. If you have a few red dots in a row, maybe a change needs to occur. TRUST me on this, I know from experience. The rep system doesn't need to be changed and is perfectly fine with how it stands right now. Stop whining about it, and let it go.
Randy, The other anon is right. You are extremely cruel to players under 18 and god knows why. But, really, it's all bias crap. You see this ass bitching but all it is is a fact. You hold way too many grudges on people on this forum and give them rep, and infraction them because people call you things like "Angry Weasel" and "Anti-Liberal" And etc. It's all internet crap. I know you're probably going to close this thread soon in an anger rage about this, but think about it.
Anon I also had a few times where I had a few bad rep reports. But look at it this way, the rep system is used to help you improve on your posts. Which overall improves the positive experience for everyone else. For all we know you could be in a way off in posting who knows what. And if you are, those reports are meant to help you get back on topic. If you really are offended by people giving you bad rep. Which at these rep reports I could understand why. Then either try to improve your posts, put it behind you because some people are going to try to make you sad, or deal with it. Think twice before you post your stuff, thats what I do now. Your going to have some bad rep and some good rep theres no perfect rep. I personally think the rep system is perfectly fine, and that you should try to improve because it is a system to help you know if you should improve.
Randy, The other anon is right. You are extremely cruel to players under 18 and god knows why. But, really, it's all bias crap. You see this ass bitching but all it is is a fact.
I'll be sure to cry myself to sleep at night because your feelings are hurt when you're called on being stupid. Though that crying might sound suspiciously like laughing.
Here's a tip since you're clearly not getting it: age has absolutely nothing to do with it. I've already explained "how to avoid the wrath of Randy" before, go look it up. It's in another thread here in the CA forum.
Quote:
You hold way too many grudges on people on this forum and give them rep, and infraction them because people call you things like "Angry Weasel" and "Anti-Liberal" And etc.
Well now, that's a load of bull**** if I ever saw one. Tell me, what lead you to these grand assumptions? Show me an example of when I have EVER done any of this. Not when someone has insulted another mod(cause I do ban your ass quick for that), but insulted me and I'm the one that banned/infractioned.
Quote:
I know you're probably going to close this thread soon in an anger rage about this, but think about it.
Randy, The other anon is right. You are extremely cruel to players under 18 and god knows why. But, really, it's all bias crap. You see this ass bitching but all it is is a fact. You hold way too many grudges on people on this forum and give them rep, and infraction them because people call you things like "Angry Weasel" and "Anti-Liberal" And etc. It's all internet crap. I know you're probably going to close this thread soon in an anger rage about this, but think about it.
In short: You are biased as a head administrator.
Oddly, I find your post to be "Internet crap". On every forum, there are people like you raging against the mods and admins. How dare they expect people to follow the rules that they agreed to! It's the Internet! Everything is free, and even though I don't understand the Constitution, the mods/admins are violating my rights!
Also, I can tell by your post that you aren't a frequent visitor to the forums, and I'd bet my house that you haven't ever played with us. You certainly haven't read the rules of the CA forum. I'll bet you are one of the people that comes here just to promote your crap, then whine about C3 "controlling airsoft" because nobody will follow you.
I'll tell you what the real problem with internet forums is: People that think they are special. In other words, people like YOU. I don't care what Facebook or MySpace says, you aren't special. Neither am I, nor is any other member here. When you think you are special and know that there are no tangible consequences to being an a-hole, we get people like you. 99.9995% of the people like you wouldn't even dream of running their mouth to a person's face, but suddenly become empowered when you are hiding behind your keyboard. If you want to see the problem with C3, start by looking into the mirror. If you put effort into the forums, you'll get something good out of them. If all you do is spout crap, don't be surprised when you get crap out of them.
I look forward to reading about how bad we suck on other forums.
As I was reading this thread an inverse, if related, concept formed in my head:
I sometimes wish there was a way to publicly support individual posts.
I'm not suggesting an alteration to the rep system, it has its own merits and purposes. However, there are often posts that I want to put my support behind, but I refrain because the only way to do so would be to add a post that would dilute the very message of the post I want to support. Giving positive rep doesn't accomplish this specific task because, while it does reinforce the reputation of the poster overall, no one but the poster knows that you support what they said in that post.
To clarify: We all have good days and bad days, and there have been times I want to put my name behind a well-formed idea that someone else has posted, even if I don't always agree with other things they may or may not have said. I am loyal to correct principles, because I accept that individuals are human. I prefer to show support for the best of what they stand for.
The image in my head is an icon that indicates the quantity/proportion of people that are willing to publicly support the post, with a click-thru to see the list of names.
I fully accept that this would be further complication and quite possibly not worth the time/effort involved, and I *really* don't want to make life any harder for the staff here. I strongly support what this community is, and don't want to lose that. However, part of what this community stands for, and what I understand of the intended purpose of the CA forum, is to voice our thoughts about the community so I have done so.
/Hopefully without garbling it beyond recognition.
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"When I grow up, I want to be the Noobtard of Sig's."
-Positively Evil: Evil for Good!
hehe I always tell randy and lou that they suck, they yell at me all the time. *(when i get to games that is, or on the lovely interwebz) people make mistakes and that is their way of correcting others. we're adult about it to take it as it is, and then let it go
be an adult say it like it is face to face. then LET IT GO...
too much testosterone not enough estrogen in airsoft, i vote for giving 100000000000+ rep to all the women on the forum. who play and actively participate in the community.
like lou said.. this is a voluntary forum to join, don't like the rules and regs? then don't join! it's really pretty easy and simple.
I'm all for the non coddling of noobs because "ignorance" doesn't bode well for anyone in the sport.
I heart all of you C3'rs.. you're my bestest friends in PA =)
Seriously this whole rep bull**** is getting really annoying. If you have a problem with someone giving you bad rep go out on the the field and freaking shoot them. Oh if you dont know who it is still go take it out on the field we play airsoft, we shoot each other, take your anger out there.
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I love hating on people
Close friends and bullets where are they when you need them.
However, there are often posts that I want to put my support behind, but I refrain because the only way to do so would be to add a post that would dilute the very message of the post I want to support. Giving positive rep doesn't accomplish this specific task because, while it does reinforce the reputation of the poster overall, no one but the poster knows that you support what they said in that post.
There is a mod for our forum called "Helpful Answers" that allows you to do such a thing, but we'd have to upgrade to vB 4.X I think.
Randy may know more about it, including if we can shoehorn it into our version of vB.
I believe I told this story in another post, and this is NOT focused towards anyone in particular but...
My very first post was neg rep'd. Sure I was a little irritated, but I realized that I did something stupid that either angered someone or broke the rules. I didn't get any neg reps since then because I straightened my ass up! Negative rep is supposed to send a message. The message I got was "Oh, I screwed up, I broke the rules or annoyed someone, I better not do anything stupid like that again!" I thought it would work the same way for everyone but apparently I was wrong... again.
Look, there is no reason to get upset over negative reps. It just means you annoyed someone or broke a rule. Like I said, rep is there to send a message. Granted, there are probably a few people who are a little abusive of the forums' rep system, but I'd say 9 times out of 10, you deserve the pos/neg rep that you earned.
And about the "public humiliation" of getting your post trashed. Like Randy said, THAT IS THE POINT! The Admins and Mods do that so that people can see that their mistake and/or rule breaking was caught. They put your post in the trash for all to see so that you also that that same "oh crap, I screwed up. I obviously broke one of the rules. I better stop that s*** before I get in more trouble." But, again, I was wrong.
Again, this is not targeted at Rob, anon, or anybody in particular. I'm just posting this for all to read and hopefully be enlightened.
This is the 3rd or 4th posting I have seen of like this. Every time it happens I search high and low trying to find where you guys see when you get positive or negative rep. (I am forum retarted, infact I am surprised I am still on this site with all the reading it makes me do.) This time I flat out didn't care becaus it is a bar.
Also, P7hk9 Your all red Rep Bar with the scary white guys looks really intimidating... But so awesome.
The Rep System is what it is. Deal with it. It has been said time and time again it isn't going to go ANYWHERE or CHANGE. Like it or don't bother to look at it. I will say I'm a Mod and I don't like the system and think 80% of the times people give bad rep w/o a name is due to having 2 mins of feeling like a Keyboard Worrior. Most of the people throwing around bad rep for stupid reasons have NEVER played with any of us and hold more of a Chairsofter Title. If they spent more time on the field and not the PC they may see that people have their own opinions in this sport and doesnt always mean someone is wrong.
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"C3 Special Operations"
...If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?
If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective!
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience!
Randy, The other anon is right. You are extremely cruel to players under 18 and god knows why. But, really, it's all bias crap. You see this ass bitching but all it is is a fact. You hold way too many grudges on people on this forum and give them rep, and infraction them because people call you things like "Angry Weasel" and "Anti-Liberal" And etc. It's all internet crap. I know you're probably going to close this thread soon in an anger rage about this, but think about it.
In short: You are biased as a head administrator.
I find your post somewhat ironic and hilarious. You are supporting a guy who is against anonymous bad posting and flaming. Yet, that is exactly what you're doing.
/Did anyone else catch that?
//It just goes back to exactly what Lou and Randy said. When it works in your favor, it's great. When it works against you, you cry about it.
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"When eliminated, at your discretion, you may feign real death for added realism. To do this, simply lie down and stop moving." 21st Airsoft Marine Division
For the past couple months I've seen a lot of thread about rep, personally i think you just need to grow the hell up and get some thicker skin, you can't let what some idiot said on the internet about you get to you, it just leads to more malarkey you have to deal with.
And to be quite frank, the reputation system to me is just a joke i don't care if i have good or bad rep, personally I'd like everyone to Neg-Rep me just because i like the color red.
Too long; didn't read: Stop crying over 1's and 0's there are bigger things in life, like Lou's hunger.
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Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
I love these threads when I occasionally pop into the forums. I have to post, even though this is stale.
Nobody cares about your e-reputation on a internet forum devoted to playing with pretend plastic guns in the woods. You will not become more attractive to the opposite sex. School and work will not come easier to you. Your food will not taste better, flowers will not smell sweeter.
If a 13 year old anonymously gave you a sad frowny face on the interwebs, your life will go on. Why should it matter to you at all? Trolls gonna troll, haters gonna hate. Welcome to social interaction.
I have to post, even though this is stale.
