Do you like yelling?
Do you enjoy pointing and gesturing frantically?
Ever want to send 16 people gleefully into certain death?
Then command might just be what you're looking for.
There's a recent trend in airsoft these days, and I'm sure most of the veteran players here would agree- people are playing paintball with airsoft guns. This is a travesty, for there's plenty of otherways of playing, well, paintball. At the same time, there's less and less people stepping into the platoon or squad lead roles. Without tactics, you end up with 20 people hiding behind rocks shooting at the other team.
It might be fun for a few minutes, behind that rock and all, but that's not what airsoft is about. What airsoft is about is the unexpected ambush, flanking hard and fast, misdirection, confusion, surprising the other team where they are weak, and coaxing them into attacking where you are strong. No amount of kills you can get in a day beats annihilating another team with your big, upgraded, 9.6v brain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR from guns defense
They came across the ridge, right where you said they would.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
This isn't that hard at all.
I'd like to start getting us back into the tactical and strategic arena, playing chess instead of checkers. If you're seriously interested in taking up more of a command role such as squad leader or platoon leader, step on up. There's no real deeper mystery- it ain't quantum mechanics or flying jets, just some basic principals, the desire to think on your feet, and the ability to send others cheerfully into plastic doom. There's no classroom or lessons, required reading or homework.
Learn the principles of attack and defense! Understand the difference between bounding and traveling overwatch! Develop your command voice for prompt and effective yelling! Crush your enemies! See them driven before you! Listen to the lamentation of their women!
What makes airsoft better than paintball is that we don't play endless rounds of capture the flag; we do scenarios with goals, subtle rules, and difficult objectives. What breathes life into them is having good tactics, a good platoon CO, and a good plan. We need more people in that role.
Subsequently, if any vets who have been doing a lot of squad or platoon level CO/XO lately wants to join in on the teaching side it would be much appreciated.
Interested? Join up, get others to do your killing for you. It's a rush.
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"Call me a killjoy, but because this sport is not to my tastes, I don't think anyone else should be allowed to enjoy it either" - Marge Simpson
I agree whole heartedly with what you are saying. The problem, I think, though is that some people are afraid to take the lead. They might be scared that if their team loses they will get all the blame and teasing and indiscriminate pinching will ensue. Even though I'm fairly new I know that I am guilty of this. The people who know what they are doing and the veterans really should step up. Don't worry about what people will say if your squad gets ambushed, or if you make a tiny mistake. We'll forgive you since you're trying. My 2 cents.
People worry that if they don't win, their squad will have a bad time. This is absolutely not true. If you've played a bit, you know that you can have an absolute blast while dying, and dying a lot and in horrible, horrible ways. But without anyone in the CO role, they'll have no fun at all and end up shooting behind that rock again.
There's nothing to be worried about- do you know of anyone that plays that would get mad if you spent the time and energy to come up with a cunning plan that didn't quite go off perfectly? I don't, and I've led a whole lot of unsuccessful missions and never been hazed for it. Hell, people actually dig suicide runs sometimes.
"Men, this is a complete suicide mission. We have no chance of success. Most likely we'll all get hit right after we finish this very briefing."
"Hooray!"
"Uh... really? Ok, awesome. We'll die, but we'll take most of them with us. Here's what we do...."
Great post. I know I am very new to C3, but I think the strategy and mission objectives are a major part of why I got into airsoft in the first place. If anyone wants to step up and do some major mission planning...than I am right there ready to rush into the hail of bullets to try to achieve that goal. If I die trying...so be it. After a few runs, I would be willing to step up and give some mission planning myself. Let me get a few more missions under my belt.
Very well put. This is the whole reason that I enjoy the PL/C3 experience. Not knowing when the whole game plan is going to turn around and be exactly the opposite of what you expected. Then being able (or not :) ) to adapt to the change. Sitting behind that proverbial "rock" all day gets old fast.
Kudos to the weekly hosts.
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Diplomacy is saying nice doggy until you can find a rock.
If you shoot me with a .22 and I find out about it i'm gonna kick your butt.
I would like to join my brother ike in this. It's about damn time I learned some leadership skills. At least that way, it balances out me being shoved around and harassed by upperclassmen at school.
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As leader, can we also do most of the shooting or do we just have to stand in a cool army pose pointing and screaming until we pass out from lack of air?
As leader, can we also do most of the shooting or do we just have to stand in a cool army pose pointing and screaming until we pass out from lack of air?
You are also disqualified from leading people. Ever.
Leading is about seeing the whole field and not getting outflanked. Leading is about knowing your objective and having a plan on how to accomplish it. And having a third plan for when the first two don't work. Leading is NOT about doing "most of the shooting".
*ahem* They might not get very much for trading you... hehe
That aside, leadership isn't something to be taken lightly because you do sacrifice a little (some braincells for heavens sake!) by forcing yourself to think about the security, wellfare, and success of your unit. But a good leader will lead from the front, so you WILL shoot your rifle. And with time, you will get to a point where you can multi-task by providing covering fire while directing your men (in small unit tactics).
And once you start moving to larger unit commands, the further you will get from the fighting itself. But rest assured, even in our events, the ratio of people who will see relatively little shooting compared to everyone else is about 1:80+ So until you get to a point where you're commanding a company of men, don't worry...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inn3rKl1pp
Butt... Why?? My squad can carry my passed out body back to friendly forces... Or trade me for one of their hostages...
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He's a cat *Meow!* flushing a toilet...
This is supposed to be Serious Business, no more thread-****ting. This is to really start to get people online with leading squads and platoons in weekly games, thinking tactically and making the whole experience that much more fun.
If you're serious, grab me or another leader volunteer each week and we'll learn you some tactics.
I appologize for not responding much sooner, I'd be interested in a leadership tactics developement course. I did note the timing folks were discussing. Did this already happen, or is this an ongoing idea?
I'll be a leader. But I don't know if a bunch of older than me people will liten to me, because I'm just 13. Not much of a leading age. But if I can I'll do it.
Hey DkHelmet, I would look forward to doing this command workshop. just let know at our next LP game. I would enjoy learning how to yelling orders at people and sending waves of soldiers to certain death.
I would like that too. but after the whole tactical class disaster, it left a real bad taste in the mouths of the people who spent all that time setting it up. I don't think anything like its going to happen for a very long time.
I remeber at the last LP game our squad got pounded by snipers and we had nobody to lead And we could'nt afford to sit there any longer.... It was all a blur but I think I steped up and lead the squad and the V.I.P. to the river safley. It was scary thinking it was my fault if I got every body killed. But I'd defenitly be interested in learning how to lead.
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I remember that VIP mission. Two words, "****ing Disaster". Why, total lack of leadership. Everyone wasn't listening of to anyone else and too busy doing their own thing. Everyone was just huddled around the same spot, Thats why the snipers were able to pick us off so easily. If the staff ever run another workshop at LP, I will attend, because I would really like to learn how to become better at airsoft.
I remember that VIP mission. Two words, "****ing Disaster". Why, total lack of leadership. Everyone wasn't listening of to anyone else and too busy doing their own thing. Everyone was just huddled around the same spot, Thats why the snipers were able to pick us off so easily. If the staff ever run another workshop at LP, I will attend, because I would really like to learn how to become better at airsoft.
This is probably NOT the place for a AAR on the VIP mission. I agree it was a Charlie Foxtrot from the get go. There was not leadership at all until the VIPs were are the dice field's far tree line (which is were I caught up to them at ) I stepped up and tried to get things organized at this point. because I could not stand it anymore and no one else was stepping up to the plate (I think even DKhelmet made a comment on the total lack of coherence at that point as well).
In my mind the things that went well were the designated meat shields did a superb job of keeping the VIPS under cover and safe. This was the first thing I did, find out who the VIPs were and pick two random pairs of players to protect them each. I them went forward, as I came across players I asked (ordered) them to pick a partner and either stay close to the mainbody, move forward to the point of off to the sides to protect the flank. When I got up to Andrew? he had two pairs working well under his direction, I designated him my point and sent him to lead off. I knew I had friendly players all over the place but I could not contact them on radio and they were moving away from me.
I then went back for the VIPs who were once again stationary at the top bunker. On the way up I saw the scope shine reflect down hill form us, 80% of the players went off hunting instead of moving as a group down hill. It took a lot of convincing to get everyone moving down hill to the next bunker area. Oh and why we went through the brush like we did? there were enemy element Up hill towards the camp cody field that would have cut us to pieces in the open. So we went the hard way. When I got to the down hill bunker I only had the two Vip body guard (meat shield) elements and maybe two or three others. Andrew and his point element of four went forward to find us a path down to the creek.
The point element I put under Andrew? did a fantastic job on point. The issues were, in my mind this, I had two point elements going and one of them was not communicating with anyone else including me that sapped away my strength. 2/3s of the players were off free lancing so when the point element I had leading us (the VIPS) go into trouble near the creek I had no main body element to send forward to help them out. I could have sent some of the "meat shields forward but that would have left the VIPs vulnerable. That action was hot enough that I could not immediately send the VIP forward and when I returned from conferring with my point element to send the VIPS forward because I felt we were in one place to long, NO ONE MOVED. I yelled, I pleaded, and I was ignored right up until I got picked off by Dave (first, nice shot by the way). THen pretty much every one either got picked off or wandered around like stray cats for the next 10 minutes, no one stepped up to my knowledge and took control (command) after I was hit. VIPs stayed stationary WAY to long. I can not comment on what happened after that because I stayed "dead" at the massacre site. More and more friendly players started filtering in to the lower bunker brush pile and yet the VIPs and their body guards stayed there stationary.
What, in my opinion could have done better. Someone should have been designated a leader from the get go. Before the patrol even left the staging area. The patrol should have been organized with a point element of 2 to 4 players should have been leading off with a reaction force another 2 to 4 players, walking their slack. The reason for this if they come into contact a pair can initiate contact and the slack can move up to support them, part of the point (a pair preferable can peel back and get the main body and keep them moving around the fight towards the objective.
The main body can either replenish the point element and the slack in file or send some extra firepower to the contact area. Then the two VIPs surrounded by there 4 body guards each, with a main body group of 4 players that could be sent past the trouble spots. Everyone else is either main body or pairs are sent out on the flanks and rear security to help prevent ambushes or encirclement. It is imperative to keep moving and keep most of the players together in column. So there is some control by the patrol commander to send forces where they are needed and keep everyone communicating.
Some of this is my fault because I knew what I thought needed to be done as described but it seemed like I was herding cats. This patrol had enough players to do it this way. I utterly FAILED to get it done so I take responsibility for that failure.
In the past, The patrol game is set up with the goal of safely protecting VIP(s) from point A to Point B, This tends to be a loose path that travels down the left hand side of the tire field facing the creek. then down stream of the creek to the lower Right hand corner of the designated airsoft field. Start points vary but that is pretty much the last portion. The trick for the patrol is to trip any ambushed early and either smash them or tie them down long enough for the main body to bypass the firefight. You need to keep main body (VIPS) moving but keep them safe at the same time. you can stop the VIPs in cover for only short periods of time to scout or tie down ambushers and keep them busy so you can by pass them. If you wait to long, you lose.
On the sniper/ambush side of things you are vastly outnumbered and have a lot of ground to cover. You need to find the patrol because you don't know exactly which path they are taking. Once you find out where they are you need to harry it to slow it down. This give time to the rest of your confederates to close on your area and either surround the patrol or get ahead of it or both. If you snipe the VIPs and you win. If the patrol makes it to extraction point they win. So , hopefully this long winded and off topic post can give you incite in what I felt need to be done, what went wrong, and why.
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Team STAG
Quote P7hk9 "Just do it as a TEAM and not as Master Chief."
I didn't intend to go off topic with the whole VIP thing. I was just using it as an example. I think it would be a good idea to do the command workshop so in the heat of battle we would have the skills to take control of the situation and not always rely on Field staff to be in command. Sadly like I said earlier, after the whole tactical workshop failure. I am not so sure the staff would be willing to do another workshop for a very long time.
Just the way of things.
