I must say, I agree with Lou...these "Asshats" could do exactly what he said. If somebody says they enjoy making somebody bleed for no reason they are not worthy of respect.
I think that the posts of Lou's that you are calling into question are largely of a joking nature, but based on his (negative) experience with the Mansion House and Shadow Company.
As I can tell you are a part of the Philly Airsoft forums and community from the link in your sig I realize that you may just be defending friends you might have who play there or are a part of the most recent incarnation of Shadow Company, and you have every right to do so, but calling Lou into question on the basis of violating terms of use I think you might be attacking this from the wrong angle.
__________________
Well remember what you said, because in a day or two I'll have a witty and blistering retort! You'll be devastated THEN!
-Calvin
It is clear that he is allowed to express a negative opinion, but let's remember the initial argument. He told us to Blow him. Does nobody see the issue with that? I've seen less-than-reputable chatter among these boards, and it has been ignored, but that was just disgraceful. "Asshat" and all its conterparts are unfortunately out of my realm of control, but expressing sexual talk like that is clearly disgraceful to Airsoft,C3's members, and the general reader. What would some of these parents say to that?
Location: (Overbrook, the most west hood in Philly) Phildadelphia, PA
Posts: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanJ100
If we all have the right to break the stated rules, then why have rules?
Sorry, I meant a right to report something we think is wrong, not to break the rules.
However just look at it this way, if somebody said that they want to make you bleed, does "blow me" not seem like the perfect response? Plus you are taking this way to far, he clearly was not saying it in the literal way of "get on your hands and knees and S**** MY D***! It's just like when somebody says F*** You they aren't really saying I want to a have sex with you.
Sorry, I meant a right to report something we think is wrong, not to break the rules.
However just look at it this way, if somebody said that they want to make you bleed, does "blow me" not seem like the perfect response?
Off this forum in private discussion, yes. But for public forum, where the conversation is public and witnessed, No. Thousands of kids' parents didn't see the event in question, and can't tell for sure if his comment was justifiable or if it was a lie. Mind you, P7HK9 is capable of altering the posts (as stated in the forum rules thread). The above incident took place on the field and is not provable except through Hearsay.
Mind you any individual who uses these these forums, or indeed participates in the sport of airsoft at all, is either above the age of eighteen and by extension has almost certainly heard (or seen) worse, or their parents support the hobby enough to buy them guns, transport them to the field, and sign a waiver for them to play.
"I knew my child was participating in a simulated act of warfare, but allowing them to view the text "blow me" is something that I cannot tolerate!"
Seem silly to you? C3 isn't a bloody day-care center, its not set up for children as indeed the sport of airsoft is not. Anyone not mature and responsible enough to not take the statement "blow me" out of context is not someone that I want on the field playing with me.
__________________
Well remember what you said, because in a day or two I'll have a witty and blistering retort! You'll be devastated THEN!
-Calvin
Actually it's very provable. The day Shadow Company was banned from the fields it was a group vote from about 30 players on the field that day. Not initiated by the staff, but by the field owners themselves. If my memory serves me correctly, there where only 3 - 4 staff members there that day. The vote was called for by the owners due to multiple incidents on the field caused by Shadow Company and mostly because of members of this forum (not staff) on the field complaining to them about the conduct of the team in question.
The banning of SC was not a staff decision it was the fields and most importantly the players decision.
Also, P7hk9 cannot alter any posts without the rest of the staff being aware and none of the staff would stand for that.
Bryan, i agree that Lou statement is out of line. But can you blame him for it? He and many of the older players here had dealt with shadow company and their "problems". Last time thing like this happened while playing in Hong Kong the guy got his ass kicked by the field owner and banned from most fields in the city.
Mind you any individual who uses these these forums, or indeed participates in the sport of airsoft at all, is either above the age of eighteen and by extension has almost certainly heard (or seen) worse, or their parents support the hobby enough to buy them guns, transport them to the field, and sign a waiver for them to play.
"I knew my child was participating in a simulated act of warfare, but allowing them to view the text "blow me" is something that I cannot tolerate!"
Seem silly to you? C3 isn't a bloody day-care center, its not set up for children as indeed the sport of airsoft is not. Anyone not mature and responsible enough to not take the statement "blow me" out of context is not someone that I want on the field playing with me.
You have to remember that if the parent reads the rules, they will see that there won't be any of that. They shouldn't have to worry as P7HK9 (Aministrator) told them that there wouldn't be any questionable talk. Now if the parent (who may or may not give a hoot) sees this, what will their reaction be? Also, we try to advertise Airsoft as a team game. Something although destructive in nature, it is just a game. Whereas "blow me" is real. That is a real comment to someone that hasn't agreed to that kind of chatter. Where is the fun in that for the now-victimized (although possibly over-aggressive and guilty as charged) player.
Also, the event in question is provable to those there. Not to the much wider aspect of the seemingly endless internet users, who hav access without signing up.
Although Lou's response would be agreeable on the field, it can not be allowed on the forum. If someone was challenging me like that, and they have as you saw from PhillyAirsoft.com, I'd have a response similar. But it would be in person and on the field. Where it is more private and direct.
I feel it is clear that out of context Lou's response could be easily misinterpreted to something very vulgar and distasteful... But in context this response is a completely understandable response.
And how distasteful of someone to call another person hippocratic when in fact they are only calling someone else out for vulgar language after they through the first stone.
On the other hand I wasn't there so I do suppose it is possible I am misunderstanding the situation. But I still find myself compelled to protect a friend just as you did.
Edit: Also where is all of this "parent" stuff coming from? How is all of this parent stuff mildly relevant?
You have to remember that if the parent reads the rules, they will see that there won't be any of that. They shouldn't have to worry as P7HK9 (Aministrator) told them that there wouldn't be any questionable talk. Now if the parent (who may or may not give a hoot) sees this, what will their reaction be? Also, we try to advertise Airsoft as a team game. Something although destructive in nature, it is just a game. Whereas "blow me" is real. That is a real comment to someone that hasn't agreed to that kind of chatter. Where is the fun in that for the now-victimized (although possibly over-aggressive and guilty as charged) player.
If said parent has an issue with it (as I'm pretty sure has never happened) they can bring it up with Lou or not let their kids visit our site. I think that the amazing job the Admins on this site do of keeping people like Shadow Company (who are a real physical threat to the people who play with us) away should more than even out in any parents mind the atrocity that is mild profanity.
And really, I doubt that anyone who will play with a hot gun at close range with the specific intention of causing harm to the people they are playing with is deserving of any sort of sympathy. They can insult and harm to their hearts content, but have the right to be insulted when we don't want to play with them anymore and insult them over the internet?
Wheres the fun in that? Wheres the fun in being shot point-blank with a 500 FPS AEG. That is in specific violation of our rules too. And I value rules like that far more than any "emotional well being" rule, as important as the latter may be.
__________________
Well remember what you said, because in a day or two I'll have a witty and blistering retort! You'll be devastated THEN!
-Calvin
I feel it is clear that out of context Lou's response could be easily misinterpreted to something very vulgar and distasteful... But in context this response is a completely understandable response.
And how distasteful of someone to call another person hippocratic when in fact they are only calling someone else out for vulgar language after they through the first stone.
On the other hand I wasn't there so I do suppose it is possible I am misunderstanding the situation. But I still find myself compelled to protect a friend just as you did.
edit: Also where is all of this "parent" stuff coming from? Are you using a parents point of view as a way to attack Lou?...
Survivor and Philly Ninja I am fully aware that Lou and some C3 members were threatened first. I agree that their banishment wasn't without supposed purpose, but this is purely the consequence of a thrown stone after Shadow Company's banishment. P7HK9(And others) is guilty of similar slander that SC is guilty of.
Let it be known that I am not accusing Lou of hot weapons or posing physical threats to anyone. Please, that is not my intention at all.
He never spoke out against a "single" person, nor a 'group' that is likely to see these boards anyway. Saying something here is like gossiping behind someone's back. It's bound to happen sooner or later.
In my honest opinion, Lou is innocent of the charges presented before him. Though I do believe that his response might have been worded a bit better.
Name: IT'S Will Jay. Just add the J. at the end of Will
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Narnia
Posts: 1,301
I'm pretty sure the parent would read the whole thread before assuming that he was using "sexual harrassment". Also I hope you realize that foul language or whatever you want to call it, is EVERY WHERE on the internet. The "blow me" thing is a fraction of what is on the internet or anywhere in a matter of fact. Yes, whatever you say on the internet can be misenterpreted BUT you also have to look further into why he said that.
__________________
I have a Tokyo Marui M4 s-system upgraded with extras for sale here along with other items: http://www.c3airsoft.com/showthread....4-s-19128.html
"Lead, Follow, Or Get The ^$*#!! Outta The Way!!"
"The four F's"
1.find the enemy
2.fix the enemy with fire
3.flank the enemy while the fire team suppresses
4.finish the enemy with your assault team
Although foul language is everywhere, why should that infraction be tolerated but using I AM SUCH A MORON! not be?
Look at it this way. You own a home. You see graffiti everywhere else in your neighborhood. But because it's not your home, it doesn't phase you. But, when it does ends up on your Home, then the effect is a lot more prevalent. Why should you stand up for something not on your home? Cause sooner or later, that's where it's gonna end up.
Bryan, you're going to have to stop talking out of your ass. Go complain about Lou on Phillyairsoft because you're not going to receive any support here.
__________________
"How does it feel, To be on your own
With no direction home, a complete unknown, Like a rolling stone?"
Well for one thing AIM acronyms are much more easily regulated, and are far more copious when left un-regulated than actual inappropriate sexual banter. Certainly if Lou had actually been demanding that a member of the forum perform a sexual act with him, and had he been more blatantly vulgar I'm certain the other admins would have treated it more harshly. Using an AIM acronym only garners one an embarrassing edit to their post, while something like the aforementioned hypothetical situation is punishable by infraction, or banning.
I think that its pretty clear to everyone here that Lou's post was not, unless taken drastically out of context, inappropriate or even un-warranted. While semantically you may be correct, Lou's post was of a negative nature, we as rational humans are able to discern a largely harmless jibe from an actual malicious sexual comment.
As nobody else even thought to bring this up I can only deduce that you have some standing issue with Lou, and the post in question was just your excuse to call him out. An issue like this is best discussed through private messages or in person, as unfortunately this discussion will likely only garner you a negative reputation from the community at large.
We all think that Lou does an excellent job moderating the forums and upholds a fine standard for the rest of us. I truly apologize that you disagree.
__________________
Well remember what you said, because in a day or two I'll have a witty and blistering retort! You'll be devastated THEN!
-Calvin
Location: (Overbrook, the most west hood in Philly) Phildadelphia, PA
Posts: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudester
Bryan, you're going to have to stop talking out of your ass. Go complain about Lou on Phillyairsoft because you're not going to receive any support here.
guys please lets stop the trolling and flaming , he already said lock this thread so he is pretty much saying he is done with this...
Name: IT'S Will Jay. Just add the J. at the end of Will
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Narnia
Posts: 1,301
Yeah, but then again this is a PUBLIC forum. It is seen everywhere and anyone can access it like other public forums. You can't stop the foul language anywhere like how you can't fully stop graffiti everywhere. It will slip out.
__________________
I have a Tokyo Marui M4 s-system upgraded with extras for sale here along with other items: http://www.c3airsoft.com/showthread....4-s-19128.html
"Lead, Follow, Or Get The ^$*#!! Outta The Way!!"
"The four F's"
1.find the enemy
2.fix the enemy with fire
3.flank the enemy while the fire team suppresses
4.finish the enemy with your assault team
reputation provided to me: one hour and your running away? Your wasting time and thought by posting a thread and then discarding it when it does not fall in your favor.
When The majority votes it dead, I guess im not running away. I exasperated all my points, when there is nothing else left to argue, I call that a dead argument.
You need to seriously re-read the rules of the CA Forums. Several of you do in fact.
The reason why it HAS gone on and you've been able to change and modify your point to cope with what other users interpret from the thread in question is because we have been discussing it privately and will respond shortly.
The thread will NOT be locked, and everyone IS accountable for the posts they make on these forums. Just some food for thought.
__________________ "But you say that you want to go back to this place, Earth, a place that you tell me has so much disease and suffering!?"
"Well, you guys don't have chocolate..."
If this were a Poco Loco Paintball forum, I'd agree.
But this is a public PRIVATELY FUNDED forum. There is no cost to join. The mods can run it however they like. It is not a business. No one pays to be a part of the forum. You can go to PL games without being a part of the forum.
One thing to understand is while there is no discrimination towards younger players, it is not a kid's targeted event. These teenagers, young adults, and older adults are out there to have fun on their time. Staff members like Lou do not get paid for what the do. They pay. Why? Cause they are there to play.
It is also worth mentioning that while it is not a federal law to be 18+ years, I've yet to see a store to advertise they sell to those who are younger. As stated before, in this case, games of this website are loosely simulated war. "Blow me" should be the least of a parent's concerns for their kids playing good guy vs. bad guy with a bunch of "grown" men.
In my opinion, BryanJ100's overreaction to Lou's comment did a great job of diminishing the real point of his comment: Lou was voicing his opinion of players who represent themselves as elite players that want to play with no limits. No limit on velocity and no minimum engagement rules, not only on a field but in CQB.
BryanJ100 is far more worried about preserving our virgin ears than he is in denouncing "RENEGADE STYLE" airsoft. Give us a break.
I can explain this perfectly....
"Do as I say not as I do"
He is a moderator and is one of the reasons this site is up and running as proficiently as it does. Please respect him.
Please read rule 3 it says to respect your mods and admins.
Saying his presence needs to be discussed; Well I think thats disrespectful
Bryan, I work in a firehouse and hear all kinds of "off-color" conversations daily. I've heard things come out of 15 year old's mouths on the field that quite frankly make me blush. I don't think the "Blow and Me" comment is very mild when compared. So I still fail to see where Lou has violated any forum rule with the comment.
Next, I believe that he said that he had two words for "those people." So if I wanted to read into your response (per your words in post #5) of this thread, you are saying that you are a member of Shadow Company? How do you know that Lou did not mean for those he directed his comment toward to blow on his arm? You don't. No one does but Lou. You can assume or infer whatever you want and blow it out of proportion. It happens all the time on the internet.
__________________
Never forget September 11, 2001...FDNY 343 "Team S.T.A.G."
Last edited by SnakeMedic : 03-09-2010 at 07:50 PM.
Just thought I'd remind you that part of the purpose of the CA forums is to challenge the way things are run, and that the members do not need to defend their mods and admins.
__________________ Speak only if it improves upon the silence._-Mohandas Ghandi
We have carefully considered this situation and it really comes down to some pretty simple things.
Now, we're all for taking a stand in favor of the rules, but this really isn't the right subject for it. This idiot and those who think like him are out to hurt people. Why in the world should we be polite and gentle about our feelings toward that? If anything, that's the time for the leaders of boards to lay into someone for being absolutely stupid AND dangerous.
Regarding the rule violations: the rule you quoted doesn't even apply to those not on the forum, and you're also adding a circumstance that isn't in the spirit of the rule. It's not designed so we never bad mouth anything or do so with elegance, but rather to avoid inter-forum flaming and bickering. In addition, no one has ever been reprimanded for expressing displeasure about a play style or group of players.
There is no breaking of rules here.
__________________ "But you say that you want to go back to this place, Earth, a place that you tell me has so much disease and suffering!?"
"Well, you guys don't have chocolate..."
If this violates the CA forum rule, i'm sorry. But I would like to know Bryan, if you're speaking out against profanity on every airsoft forum or just this one, because this obviously concerns you greatly, and if you feel this strongly then one can assume you would go to multiple forums and point out where you feel someone had made a profane statement, and not just single out this one in this instance?
If you haven't gone to more forums, can I assume it's because this is the only forum where people new to airsoft go to learn what airsoft is about? Please elaborate, if you will.
If this violates the CA forum rule, i'm sorry. But I would like to know Bryan, if you're speaking out against profanity on every airsoft forum or just this one, because this obviously concerns you greatly, and if you feel this strongly then one can assume you would go to multiple forums and point out where you feel someone had made a profane statement, and not just single out this one in this instance?
for example the forum you are defending? noticed they say a lot worse things than here and I didn't see you raise a fit over there.
for example the forum you are defending? noticed they say a lot worse things than here and I didn't see you raise a fit over there.
I'm not sure what you mean. I guess you didn't read the whole thread, because that was my only post regarding the subject, and I am neither defending or attacking anyone or anything, I simply asked if he would elaborate his reasons for being so concerned over this if it happens all the time, and if he brings up those points up whereever he sees profanity used on the internet, or only here.
I'm also not sure what "here" and "over there" refers to, so why don't you post a link to "here and there". Also, I didn't "raise a fit", I asked a genuine question.
I'm not sure what you mean. I guess you didn't read the whole thread, because that was my only post regarding the subject, and I am neither defending or attacking anyone or anything, I simply asked if he would elaborate his reasons for being so concerned over this if it happens all the time, and if he brings up those points up whereever he sees profanity used on the internet, or only here.
I'm also not sure what "here" and "over there" refers to, so why don't you post a link to "here and there". Also, I didn't "raise a fit", I asked a genuine question.
erm...wasn't talking about you. I was adding onto your post. I was talking about Bryan's phillyairsoft.com forum.
That's enough guys. We appreciate it, we really do but please let Bryan respond.
__________________ "But you say that you want to go back to this place, Earth, a place that you tell me has so much disease and suffering!?"
"Well, you guys don't have chocolate..."
If you haven't gone to more forums, can I assume it's because this is the only forum where people new to airsoft go to learn what airsoft is about? Please elaborate, if you will.
I feel that is an elitist statement. There are plenty of airsoft forums new players can go to, nit just C3. Now this seems like people are just taking sides a fighting it out, can we just drop this issue?
Okay, I'm going to do my best to stay unbiased in this, but I feel that Lou's statement, while distasteful, was next to harmless. While not necessary, I feel it was still justified. Personally, I chuckled a little bit after reading it in the other thread. I guess I have bad taste too.
While I feel that Bryan overreacted to Lou's mostly harmless remark, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. However, I think that Bryan could have solved this issue with a simple private message to Lou.
I am not trying to take either side, but I feel that this issue could have easily been resolved privately, rather in this public setting, which seems to be the issue to begin with.
I think we all have a lesson to be learned here. Many issues are better solved one on one, in a private message, rather than turning into a flame fest.
I feel that is an elitist statement. There are plenty of airsoft forums new players can go to, nit just C3. Now this seems like people are just taking sides a fighting it out, can we just drop this issue?
I was saying that IF the case is that he only feels it necessary to point out profanity being used is here, I was asking if it's because he thinks this is the only place people go to learn about airsoft is here. I know there are other airsoft forums and groups to play with and learn the ropes with, I guess I should have made it clear that I wasn't saying we're the only one(or the best or anything), but rather that it was part of my question for Bryan.
Now, Coeus has asked that we just let Bryan respond, so let's stop the unnecessary posting until then so he has a chance to do so.
I just want to point out to those who did not notice, BryanJ100 has a problem with two words said by Lou while at the same time does not say anything about everything that is said here, on this forum: http://phillyairsoft.com/post1862.html#p1862
I just want to point out to those who did not notice, BryanJ100 has a problem with two words said by Lou while at the same time does not say anything about everything that is said here, on this forum: http://phillyairsoft.com/post1862.html#p1862
Since judgment on my actions has been passed, and I'm not banned, I can weigh in.
It's preposterous that BryanJ1000 is offended, shocked, and appalled at my horribly off-color remark, but is OK playing with jerks that are excited about hurting people. Someone has their priorities mixed up, and it's not me.
One other thing I'd like to add about the players at the other forum: Who cares? Let them do their thing, and we will go on doing our thing. Let them come over here and say bad things, create alternate accounts, and get uppity if someone says "dammit." Let them rage against the giant might that is C3 (sarcasm). The staff will deal with them on the forums and the field if they show up to screw with us.
This little spat was pretty amusing, but ultimately it is nothing. They only affect us if we allow them. They take shots at us because we are a large, diverse, and successful community. We are successful because we will not stoop to their level. We will not appease unsafe players, and we will put a stop to BS on the field when we see it. This is why we are great. Not because we can win a forum war, rather because we won't take part in a forum war. Let them RAGE all they want, while we continue to do our thing. All of our other adversaries have faded into irrelevance, and C3 thrives. My salty language aside, we must be doing something right.
So please, stop linking their drivel here, and for God's sake, don't go over there and start crap. We really are better than that.
I just want to point out to those who did not notice, BryanJ100 has a problem with two words said by Lou while at the same time does not say anything about everything that is said here, on this forum: http://phillyairsoft.com/post1862.html#p1862
Originally, I wasn't going to speak up, but I have to agree here. I feel that this whole drama bomb is due to people taking sides about which forum they like more. The discussion here has become extremely biased, and more than one person here is being biased.
Can we all agree that Lou's comment was somewhat reasonable, and that this whole charade can be put behind us?
EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by P7hk9
It's preposterous that BryanJ1000 is offended, shocked, and appalled at my horribly off-color remark, but is OK playing with jerks that are excited about hurting people. Someone has their priorities mixed up, and it's not me.
One other thing I'd like to add about the players at the other forum: Who cares? Let them do their thing, and we will go on doing our thing. Let them come over here and say bad things, create alternate accounts, and get uppity if someone says "dammit." Let them rage against the giant might that is C3 (sarcasm). The staff will deal with them on the forums and the field if they show up to screw with us.
This little spat was pretty amusing, but ultimately it is nothing. They only affect us if we allow them. They take shots at us because we are a large, diverse, and successful community. We are successful because we will not stoop to their level. We will not appease unsafe players, and we will put a stop to BS on the field when we see it. This is why we are great. Not because we can win a forum war, rather because we won't take part in a forum war. Let them RAGE all they want, while we continue to do our thing. All of our other adversaries have faded into irrelevance, and C3 thrives. My salty language aside, we must be doing something right.
So please, stop linking their drivel here, and for God's sake, don't go over there and start crap. We really are better than that.
I agree 110%. We need to just move on from this little tantrum.
and flaming 
