Mike from Montgomery Army/Navy suggested putting up a feedback thread for the game at LVP, so here it is.
Tell us what you like, but more importantly, tell us what you DIDN'T like. Tell us what we need to do better, just please tell us about things that C3 airsoft can do something about. We can't change the weather, the price, parking, paint on the field, etc. Game mechanics and play, we can fix.
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Field was awesome in my opinion. Plenty of cover and brush to flank, and do plenty of tactics. My favorite field was the Wasteland by far. You could either flank deep right/left or even go up the center, and have many different outcomes of each game. The balancing of the teams was a minor issue, but that can be worked out fairly easily on the spot. The scenarios were fun, but there seemed to be some mis communication between players which resulted in confusion of who was on what team. Other than those small issues of which I can think of, the field was awesome and I really look forward to going again. Big thanks to Montgomeryville army navy for putting together such a great game!
It seemed like friendly fire was happening left and right. I honestly don't know what can be done about it that's practical, but possibly distinguish where one team is likely coming from, because me and another kid snuck into the enemy base posing as their team and attempted to capture the pilot.
It seemed like friendly fire was happening left and right. I honestly don't know what can be done about it that's practical, but possibly distinguish where one team is likely coming from, because me and another kid snuck into the enemy base posing as their team and attempted to capture the pilot.
And it almost worked.
For the record; Lying about your team affiliation is strictly NOT ALLOWED. Airsoft is a game of honor, and while everybody loves a little psychological warfare every now and then, this just causes anger and frustration.
If an enemy asks you "Are you on my team?", and you're not, you cannot lie to them. You don't have to say anything at all if you like.
Nobody wants to go back to the arm-tapes.
__________________ Speak only if it improves upon the silence. -Mohandas Ghandi Quit fapping to your guns and get on the damn field!
yea the team thing happened to me when we were the defenders of the castle with 2 re spawns, Towards the end I came face to face with someone and I didn't know what team he was on, and it's pretty scary when you say you are on the opposite team, considering you can't run away or really do anything. But pull out a knife.
I thought the games were fun just a little confusing though. I'll have to say I was a bigger fan of pl. Just because we all know are way around it and don't get lost, but than again the only way to learn the field to play at it.
Every thing was fine, a little many people but I doubt it will always be 70 some people.
__________________ I am always on your team
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mooch mooch mooch mooch mooch mooch mooch.
For the record; Lying about your team affiliation is strictly NOT ALLOWED. Airsoft is a game of honor, and while everybody loves a little psychological warfare every now and then, this just causes anger and frustration.
If an enemy asks you "Are you on my team?", and you're not, you cannot lie to them. You don't have to say anything at all if you like.
Nobody wants to go back to the arm-tapes.
We didn't realize it was the enemy team until we noticed that we didn't recognize anyone. Nobody asked us for a confirmation, so we decided to kind of just roll with it. In retrospect it's kind of a dickish move but they technically already won.
It was amazing considering we had 70+ people. That one "rescue the pilot" mission was a big mess: people getting lost in the woods somehow, people on both teams escorting the pilot together until finally realizing they were on different teams, ect. The castle games were amazing and everyone followed the rules very well.
For the record; Lying about your team affiliation is strictly NOT ALLOWED. Airsoft is a game of honor, and while everybody loves a little psychological warfare every now and then, this just causes anger and frustration.
If an enemy asks you "Are you on my team?", and you're not, you cannot lie to them. You don't have to say anything at all if you like.
Nobody wants to go back to the arm-tapes.
Yep. Someone knifed me yesterday after posing as someone on my team. So confusing and frustrating.
I'm not directing this directing this directly towards the C3 staff but to M.A.N: I noticed that you guys were the ones who brought the chrono and I think the fact that we only had one killed about an hour of our play time. Maybe someone could offer to bring another one so we could have a more efficient startup time.
Oh and the incident after the game was disappointing for the first day at a new field.
It really enjoyed it. A new field always poses new things to overcome and work through, and it seemed that the staff appropriately used the available fields to make each game a challenge [at least the ones I was at until lunch].
I haven't any complaints about the field or the way everything was run. The only "issue" I really noticed was discrepancies between a few of the players, but that isn't anything the staff has much control over, if any.
Overall, it was really good. Thanks to the staff and Army Navy for putting this together
__________________ BlackHounds- MORS EX TENEBRIS
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I'm not directing this directing this directly towards the C3 staff but to M.A.N: I noticed that you guys were the ones who brought the chrono and I think the fact that we only had one killed about an hour of our play time. Maybe someone could offer to bring another one so we could have a more efficient startup time.
Oh and the incident after the game was disappointing for the first day at a new field.
I apologize for that. My friend has really bad ADHD and combined with a stupid mistake he got his privileges taken away and it was pretty embarrassing for me and the kids I was with.
Oh, and one other thing, there's a lot of potholes and branches on a lot of main areas where engagements happen, and they are covered by this thick type of grass. I've seen at least five people trip up on them and almost break their ankle. It may be quite a task, but I can describe some problem areas that could use a clearing.
It was definatly a good field i always enjoy a change of pace. Thanks MAN for sponsering it. But the big thing i noticed besides the over abundant amont of people, was the engagement rule being broken over and over agin. I personally was involved in one and was not happy AT ALL. THe big thing was i noticed it several times and even called several people on it before they could open fire. People would just pop there gun through the bushes and open up on whoever was standing right there and go back in. I am sure it had alot to do with the amount of people we had. But all in all it was fun and i would not hesitate to go back just will wear more protective clothing next time. Thanks again MAN and John ok ok sorry Johnathan you did a great job for the first game. I hope to see more and attend more games.
I noticed several boards with nails in them lying around the field, can someone advise the people at LVP next time to just keep an eye out? And, if it's not too personal, elucidate on what happened after the game? This "incident"?
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Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
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I noticed several boards with nails in them lying around the field, can someone advise the people at LVP next time to just keep an eye out? And, if it's not too personal, elucidate on what happened after the game? This "incident"?
The "incident" was me dryfiring in the safety zone, it was dumb and i should of seen it coming and actions were taken.
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This rifle is your lifeline, make friends with it for it will return in favor a wonderful act of defense towards your life or your comrades life. -Uncle Val R.I.P -USMC vietnam vet.
I noticed several boards with nails in them lying around the field, can someone advise the people at LVP next time to just keep an eye out?
It seems like there's a lot of hazardous stuff lying aroun in the woods from what we've encountered. Haha, not to mentioned the downed tree sitting on the trail.
Location: (Overbrook, the most west hood in Philly) Phildadelphia, PA
Posts: 977
Two complaints,
Engagement Distances
Minor "Cheating"
First, in the Alamo there was a fair amount of fire being sent towards my face by somebody about five feet away, when told to watch their engagement distance, they still fired on me. (They got the message AFTER they fired on me twice)
Second, a few people seemed to not like calling their hits, I always give the benefit of the doubt, and I know from experience you don't always feel the first few hits, however I saw a STREAM of my BBs all ricochet off somebodies goggles only to watch them continue firing at me. Still, I cannot complain as this was primarily the only cheating incident that I can say was definitely intentional ignoring of hits and it didn't really ruin my game in any way, I had an AMAZING time today and I would love to return.
As far as team identification, make callsigns or a "challenge word", I know my team was using the word "echo" as team identification, worked fine and was "OMG MILSIM!"
And as far as debris laying around, all I can say is watch your step, even PL has debris you just gotta be mindful of where you are going, plus any good boots or BDUs should stand up to a nail or two.
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Philadelphia Hardcore Airsoft Group - Team Founder
Team P.H.A.G. - "We proudly bear our (Combat) cocks!"
C3 "Special" Operations - "Yes, we're better tan you!"
P.A.A.G. East - "Acta non Verba"
“Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain.” - VP
Last edited by GeneralPoraboo : 05-23-2010 at 08:18 PM.
It seems like it's really hard to take the Alamo with standard engagement rules, players are either forced to walk away or disregard minimum engagement and fire anyway. But, it's pretty much expected with CQB.
Location: (Overbrook, the most west hood in Philly) Phildadelphia, PA
Posts: 977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Foxtrot
It seems like it's really hard to take the Alamo with standard engagement rules, players are either forced to walk away or disregard minimum engagement and fire anyway. But, it's pretty much expected with CQB.
I do agree with that, I think we should use a modified version of the castle rules we use at PL, where that all you have to do is set foot in the castle but since the PL castle is much harder to run straight into than this castle I think we should change it to having maybe something like 5 people set foot into the castle, or like maybe 25% of the attackers.
In short, instead of needing to kill people in the castle, the attackers just have to have a quarter of their team set foot in the castle at least once (not simultaneously)
__________________
Philadelphia Hardcore Airsoft Group - Team Founder
Team P.H.A.G. - "We proudly bear our (Combat) cocks!"
C3 "Special" Operations - "Yes, we're better tan you!"
P.A.A.G. East - "Acta non Verba"
“Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain.” - VP
I do agree with that, I think we should use a modified version of the castle rules we use at PL, where that all you have to do is set foot in the castle but since the PL castle is much harder to run straight into than this castle I think we should change it to having maybe something like 5 people set foot into the castle, or like maybe 25% of the attackers.
In short, instead of needing to kill people in the castle, the attackers just have to have a quarter of their team set foot in the castle at least once (not simultaneously)
Totally agree.
A significant portion of the attackers should hold a part of the base for like a minute or two for victory. I also think there should be another segment of the Alamo where a wall separate the center courtyard in two so there is a realistic chance of getting in the building. We were being knocked out the second we left the woods.
Guys I handled the engagement distances with a lot of people you asked.... They understand and know who they are....Do it again and bye bye.
Aside from that
Awesome day!
Couldn't have asked for a better group of guys a lot of the younger guys were eager to listen and ready to play.....
You all deserve A pat on the back!
Aside from that my Custards last stand ended in me having to call out to avoid someone getting hurt.
__________________
GTU
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Without my rifle I am nothing, without me, my rifle is nothing."
Had a great day first time playing with alot of you looking forward to more games in the future. As for Lvp loved it because its right around the corner. Games were great the pilot game was the only one that turn to be alittle bit of a flop. As for engagement and hits i did not seem to have any trouble with these two throughout the day. GG
We really appreciate all who have came out and played. It was tough to regulate the insane amount of people for my first time organizing a game, and I will get better at that. I'd like to thank All who helped. I know its odd that I am commenting on my own game, but I feel there were some kinks I could mention that need to be sorted out, and others can comment on.
First off I feel that everyone will set up at the tables near the speedball fields rather then out of their cars. It was difficult trying to rally everyone when people were moving back and forth from two staging areas.
A better understanding of the field and boundary tape is another thing. I toured the field prior to the game and tried to retain a mental lay out of where everything is, but the only real way is to gain experience on the field during play. This will obviously come in time, and the more we do it, the better structured it will be. This way I will be able to give accurate directions to fields and what's in play during a given scenario.
I understand about the chrono time. There were alot of people that havent played at a legit field before, and we had a ton of players which made chronoing, and the wait for game time long. It was also due to people coming and going from there cars to the staging area.
Please post anything else about how we can improve gameplay.
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Official Airsoft Tech of Montgomeryville Army Navy.
Next time we will have 3 Chronographs out in the morning. We will try to get the first game running by 10am. Field will open at 9am. also please feel free to post any game ideas you have for the field. I think we ran a total of nine games for the day so any ideas you have would be helpful.
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Im glad to be seeing positive feed back and just like some of you guys im new to this with airsofters and the fields. I had a great time and i cant wait for you guys to come back. As for any field related issues. i work on the fields during the week and it would be greatly appriciated if you could tell me what you noticed that was wrong and i will take care of it. this way you guys can help me help you have a better time next game. i know about the tree on the trail up to deep woods and i will be taking care of that on wendnesday. i will do all i can to fix up and this way the fields are better for you and for paintballers that use the fields along side of you. as for the "incident" at the end of the day, it was handled and hopefully anouther incident like it will not happen again.
Thank you and ill see ya on the field.
Dutch
My views and my opinons are my own and do not reflect LVP or any of its Affiliates.
I witnessed the "incident"; punishment was a tiny bit harsh. The games though were great and i look forward to playing again. One concern i had was a couple of the younger kids there were blind firing from the alamo into the direction of the respawn in the woods and at people approaching the front entrance of the alamo behind the spools
I witnessed the "incident"; punishment was a tiny bit harsh.
C3 takes safety VERY seriously. Breaking the rules in the safe zone and deliberately endangering other people (not to mention exposing the player's own family to serious liability risk) will always be a one-way ticket to bansville. If you can't handle the responsibility of owning an airsoft gun, you shouldn't be playing. If you want to hate on us for being too safe, you go right ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechabot4
The games though were great and i look forward to playing again. One concern i had was a couple of the younger kids there were blind firing from the alamo into the direction of the respawn in the woods and at people approaching the front entrance of the alamo behind the spools
The next time you see unsafe behavior like this, please notify a staff member immediately. I saw plenty of staff telling people to watch the blind-firing, but we can't be everywhere.
All I have to say is AWESOME!!! This was my first time ever playing an organized airsoft event and I was thoroughly impressed. I meet some fine people who were extremely helpful in making my first experience a very positive one. the milsim tactics were great in our little flanking squads. The only negative was not knowing the exact boundaries for a couple games. I look forward to coming out again soon. Oh a big thanks to MAN, especially John and Mike for telling me about the event and encouraging me to come. Thanks guys, Dan
All I have to say is AWESOME!!! This was my first time ever playing an organized airsoft event and I was thoroughly impressed. I meet some fine people who were extremely helpful in making my first experience a very positive one. the milsim tactics were great in our little flanking squads. The only negative was not knowing the exact boundaries for a couple games. I look forward to coming out again soon. Oh a big thanks to MAN, especially John and Mike for telling me about the event and encouraging me to come. Thanks guys, Dan
Hahah I was glad to have you on my 6 for most of the game, dude. I hope to see you again on the field sometime soon.
Only big thing I noticed was the aforementioned friendly fire. Especially in the woods, people seemed to have a lot of target I.D. problems. I imagine this comes from unfamiliar terrain and lots of new people who don't know a lot of us yet. Both of these will definitely get better with time. Couple of minor things about the inside of the Alamo- iffy engagement distances, very punishing fields of fire (for both sides) and at least one piece of cover almost collapsed under the combined 300-odd pounds of weight from me and somebody else leaning on it.
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Team P.H.A.G. - "We proudly bear our (Combat) cocks!"
"As the great warrior-poet Ice Cube once said, If the day does not require an AK, it is good."
All I have to say is AWESOME!!! This was my first time ever playing an organized airsoft event and I was thoroughly impressed. I meet some fine people who were extremely helpful in making my first experience a very positive one. the milsim tactics were great in our little flanking squads. The only negative was not knowing the exact boundaries for a couple games. I look forward to coming out again soon. Oh a big thanks to MAN, especially John and Mike for telling me about the event and encouraging me to come. Thanks guys, Dan
You had a lot of fun could tell by your face you loved it!
To the others about engagement distances and friendly fire.
Friendly Fire- Occurs ALOT..... Don't complain about it just deal with it.... FRIENDLY FIRE IS NOT FRIENDLY.
Engagement- It was being handled...... John yelled Lou yelled Bracket yelled Champ and my self yelled(Jay squeaked but he still did something*PAYBACK*)..... We always scream watch your engagement distances.... This is a result of not listening.... God or whomever you beleive in (Yes Deluca is gay, Lou) gave you ears use them.
All I have to say fantastic game, great staff, great field I look forward to going back.
Edit
The incident....
If you weren't apart of it and you know who you are don't say anything about it whats done is done.
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GTU
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Without my rifle I am nothing, without me, my rifle is nothing."
It was a nice change of pace for me to be playing instead of admining and sorry that I left early without saying my regards but thanks for the nice game day and organizing everything.
I guess i'm just a little spoiled with the USANA and ET paintball fields, because LVP was a bit gooey for me. I'm more on the agressive side but unfortuneately I don't like to sponge off my gear after a game to clean it. It's not a bad reflection on the field or anything of the sort, it's just i'm used to non paintball gooey walls.
Just a question to clarify I don't see it anywhere but:
1 - why don't you use arm tape to signify which side you're on?
I will formulate more suggestions but want that clarified before I look the fool with the foot in his mouth.
The armband idea only works when the sides stay the same throughout the day, and even then past experience has blatently shown us that they are only margionally effective or useful. Armbands for 76 people in shifting games between force on force, attack & defend, and other missions become problematic, and if we are to attempt to delve into C3's scenario bag we find games of 3 teams, sniper hunt, and other drastically odd-sided games where switching and managing armbands is more of a pain in the ass than the 1 out of 5 times that it will actually prevent a friendly fire incident.
__________________ "Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong."
-Thomas Fuller
I'm more on the agressive side but unfortuneately I don't like to sponge off my gear after a game to clean it. It's not a bad reflection on the field or anything of the sort, it's just i'm used to non paintball gooey walls.
Meh, a lotta people don't. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to get paint on your gear. It's sadly just a cross we have to bare to make sure we have a place to play that is legal around here so no one gets shot or arrested. Now if you're looking to keep the gear pristine forever, then you're just nuts.
Though LP and PL are far less gooey. LP especially so. There's whole areas dedicated just to us, so no paint in sight.
As far as the armbands, Jay said it perfectly. Even when using them during the big games and they were brightly colored Red and Blue, people STILL couldn't tell who was who a LOT of times. Hell there's still friendly fire when there's uniforms (though it is admittedly a lot less). Which is why, kicking and screaming, we finally switched over to Restrictive Camo for the Large Ops.
Then why not just pick sides at the start of the game and stick with them with armbands?
again just trying to clarify..
I agree, if you were to mix up the teams that much during the day then armbands will become more of a nuisance .
but wouldn't that be rectified if you stick with the teams you're assigned to at the beginning of the day?
i mean for the sake of simplicity, ease of play, and administration wouldn't it be better just to pick sides and be done with it?
I mean even if the players can't effectively aquire a target and react to it effectively *(friendly fire or not) it's better to hear that there were less friendly fire incidents than the 10 -20 you hear in the AAR's if you could have a visual distinction such as the armband.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjaniz
Meh, a lotta people don't. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to get paint on your gear. It's sadly just a cross we have to bare to make sure we have a place to play that is legal around here so no one gets shot or arrested. Now if you're looking to keep the gear pristine forever, then you're just nuts.
Though LP and PL are far less gooey. LP especially so. There's whole areas dedicated just to us, so no paint in sight.
As far as the armbands, Jay said it perfectly. Even when using them during the big games and they were brightly colored Red and Blue, people STILL couldn't tell who was who a LOT of times. Hell there's still friendly fire when there's uniforms (though it is admittedly a lot less). Which is why, kicking and screaming, we finally switched over to Restrictive Camo for the Large Ops.
In large events i agree armbands are ineffective. but in skirms like this i guess it's just my opinion just to pick sides, armband one side and stick with your side the whole day.
I didn't know it was your common practice to mix up the population in each skirmish game.
I've just had bad experiences with yellow and orange paintball paint bleeding into the OD gear that i've used. I'll be at more fields now that i have more time to do more playing instead of producing.
Last edited by precisionstrike : 05-25-2010 at 11:55 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I always vote against armbands. I hate the idea. Armbands are for paintball, and there are enough players that think we are playing "paintball with airsoft guns" to begin with. Just look at the first mission. Attackers outnumbered the defenders 3 to 1, yet 95% of the attacking team (that had unlimited respawns) ran to cover and hid. All that was missing was the THUMP THUMP THUMP from their markers. I'm against anything that reinforces the paintball mindset.
Most of the day there was a smaller group defending while a larger force attacked. You want to eliminate friendly fire? How about the players all get together and work out an actual strategy? Maybe do something other than dwell on how much they look like they are in COD4 in their gear? I saw SEVEN PEOPLE move to the same corner to engage. As the enemy shot them, more just kept coming literally SECONDS after the last guy called hit. Seven people. Surely this was situational awareness at it's finest!
Friendly fire is what happens when there is disorganization and chaos on the battlefield. In airsoft, it both thrives on stupid and it's the cure. Get players to be organized, get them to realize that they aren't the only one out there and this is a TEAM EFFORT (not you RJ, just ranting), and you will know where your friendlies are. Everyone wants to dress up and shoot, but nobody wants to soldier.
Till people realize it, welcome to paintball with airsoft guns.
Then why not just pick sides at the start of the game and stick with them with armbands?
again just trying to clarify..
I agree, if you were to mix up the teams that much during the day then armbands will become more of a nuisance .
but wouldn't that be rectified if you stick with the teams you're assigned to at the beginning of the day?
i mean for the sake of simplicity, ease of play, and administration wouldn't it be better just to pick sides and be done with it?
I mean even if the players can't effectively aquire a target and react to it effectively *(friendly fire or not) it's better to hear that there were less friendly fire incidents than the 10 -20 you hear in the AAR's if you could have a visual distinction such as the armband.
That's been tossed around a few times but it always comes back to 2 things: 1) What if one side dominates ALL day? Then, logically, one side is stuck losing all day. 2) What happens when the missions call for off-sided forces (Like an entrenched defense)?
And if one simply suggests "Well then just change them out if either of that happen"... then how is it different from what we do now?
Everything is based on Volunteers. It's really up to the players if they want to keep the same sides all day. We ask for X number of Volunteers and whomever shows, shows. I've noticed it's not so much "Who is fighting" as "What the mission is" on who volunteers for a side.
Ex: Little timmy there doesn't want to attack now, but the rest of the people who just dominated in a defense all want to attack. So Little timmy stays to defend.
That's fine as far as I'm concerned. But if we have to force a team, then we're making him have a bad time at the field. Is it worse than getting FF'd? In my opinion, yes. Because at the very least, he got to play on the side he wanted, and since there's no guarantee someone is going to get FF'd during a mission, his game experience is better.
Now, lately, we have gone ahead and started balancing out the sides a bit with the Spec Ops crew just to make the games a little less one sided at times, but there's no guarantee their presence on a team is going to affect an outcome. At most, they're just there to give everyone a public example of what you could be striving to do out there. At best, they dominate those who haven't worked together.
But it boils down to this for me, friendly fire isn't really our fault. Since we have no ability to freeze someone's gun before they shoot a friendly, it becomes the players' responsibility. We can't fix someone's inability to properly identify a friend/foe before pulling the trigger. Instead of shooting first and asking questions later, it should be the opposite. If that means someone walks by, semi-hidden, that's an enemy, and gets a kill before they could identify if they were enemy or not... so be it.
It's a combat simulation, the hand holding has to end somewhere...
Im a little confused on this one. Why couldnt ya just have both sides bring a red and black bandana. If you put on a red team you wear red , black you wear black. I havent played a gmae yet so my suggestion is just that a suggestion. I cant figure out why its so hard jsut to swap out a color......Im sure im missing something
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"You messed with the wrong bull"
We can't require every person that comes to one of our games to go buy 2 bandanas. My suggestion is that you come to a few games and see how they work.
Im a little confused on this one. Why couldnt ya just have both sides bring a red and black bandana. If you put on a red team you wear red , black you wear black. I havent played a gmae yet so my suggestion is just that a suggestion. I cant figure out why its so hard jsut to swap out a color......Im sure im missing something
Like it was already said, arm bands aren't enough. When we had BRIGHTLY colored Arm Bands for teams (Royal Blue and Bright Red), there were still incidents. Hell, there's still incidents now that we've switched over to Restrictive Camo.
This really is a player-responsibility thing, not an organizer one. Just like it's your responsibility to follow the rules on the field. We can't MAKE you follow the rules, we can only control what happens next (you are sent packing). Same thing here. We can't make you recognize your target and not shoot your friendlies. There's only so much we can do to make it easier for you, but it'll NEVER be enough.
Until people stop shooting anything that moves without actually thinking, it'll always be a problem. Figuring out who's on what team ends up being rather easy for the most part when you're not shooting first and sorting it out later.
EDIT: No matter what, there's ALWAYS going to be a possibility of FF. It's just a reality of the game. Even if you know your guys down to their shoe size, they're wearing the right gear, and give you no evidence that they're bad guys. You STILL might accidentally light up a friendly. It happens.
the field was great. i really enjoyed the scenario games and the different skill level that everyone brought to the game....overall it was very enjoyable and i had a blast
