By: CHRISTOPHER RUVO The Intelligencer
Three teens playing war games near an elementary school were cited for disorderly conduct for causing public alarm.
"Playing war" got a trio of young men in trouble with police after an alarmed resident spotted them in camouflage outfits carrying what appeared to be rifles and guns near an elementary school in Hatboro.
It turned out the weapons were just realistic-looking replicas that fire plastic balls.
Still, Hatboro residents Ryan Abel, 19, Jarrett Tourish, 18, and Thomas Krause, 19, were cited for disorderly conduct for causing public alarm with their simulated war games.
The concerned resident called police after spotting the three in a small wooded area behind Crooked Billet Elementary on March 25 while classes were in session.
The caller feared the guns were real. It was an easy mistake to make: some of the weapons appeared indistinguishable from real guns because the orange safety tips had been removed. One rifle was even modified with a metal tip that made it look particularly authentic.
"These things looked incredibly realistic," said Hatboro police Chief James Gardner.
With weapons reported near an in-session school, multiple police officers and Gardner responded to the scene. The teens were compliant and the situation was quickly diffused.
The young men apparently told police they were "playing war games" against each other. "They weren't up to anything, they were just playing," said Gardner.
Police seized the guns and rifles as evidence. Gardner said the teens were carrying several fake weapons each.
The young adults were playing with compressed air guns also known as air-soft rifles. Air-soft is a fake war game in which participants "eliminate" each other by shooting opponents with pellets typically made of plastic.
This is the second case involving teens in trouble over fake guns that local police have reported this week.
In an unrelated incident in neighboring Horsham, three teenagers were cited for disorderly conduct after police were called to a home on the 400 block of Moreland Avenue because the trio was allegedly shooting passing cars with BB gun pellets, said police. The teens claimed they were just shooting each other.
__________________ Just saw a man jogging. For recreation. At 3am. Who's he training to be, batman?
Life is a pop quiz, you never know when the test will occur, it's like we are all sitting in the game show audience of life, we should always be ready to hear "You are the next contestant for 'The **** has Hit the Fan!'"
"Dont suffer from PTSD, go out and cause it." -ID Basic Patrol Academy #156
Wow, you think that is bad read the comments...
"yes the police should have been called, but after they found out what was happening, the only real crime was then committed by the police for what they are doing to these kids, a perfect example of the system out of control, what ever happened too common sense, on both parties"
the cops should have said, "guys not a good place for this, go somewhere else" and that should have been the end of it
^^^ that comment pretty much sums up my first time playing with an airsoft gun. Cops came, of course we were idiots and were in the middle of the street shooting each other at night. Cop car rolls up they jump out with pistols in hand, we tell them they are airsoft and they see the orange tips and everything. All they said after that was guys, you cant be doing this in residential areas and that was it. They even said we really don't care if your playing in the woods or nothing just keep it away from houses where people get freaked out. They didn't take our guns or give us citations or anything. We learned our lesson.
I think if these idiots weren't so close to a school and they all had orange tips they might have gotten off a little easier.
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Frequent Wind: Scottish Special Police
I'm going to disagree with you Oaky. Any calls cops are showing up to these days that involve guns(real or fake) are going to have much stricter outcomes. With the staggering number of officers being killed in the line of duty this year, cops are not going to be playing around with people anymore.
Anytime dispatch mentions "firearms present" when responding to a call is causing officers to amp up their aggression level even before coming on scene. This very incident had officers readying their patrol rifles while en route to the call.
A year ago, yes, the kids would have gotten a slap on the wrists and told to go play some place else, now a days, don't count on leaving without being proned out, eating some pavement and being charged with something, along with having your stuff confiscated.
__________________ Just saw a man jogging. For recreation. At 3am. Who's he training to be, batman?
Life is a pop quiz, you never know when the test will occur, it's like we are all sitting in the game show audience of life, we should always be ready to hear "You are the next contestant for 'The **** has Hit the Fan!'"
"Dont suffer from PTSD, go out and cause it." -ID Basic Patrol Academy #156
ONCE AGAIN!!!. when will these fools ever learn, BYA is dangerous. those kids are damn lucky the cops didn't shoot first and ask questions later.
BYA is a very real danger to our sport. Every time one of these little "events" happen it brings the government and powers that be one step closer to just making airsoft completely illegal.
And I don't know about you guys, But if I lost airsoft, I wouldn't know what to do with my spare time.
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ChAoS
Killing the enemy with superior firepower, profanity, and crude humor.
(I've got COD4 and Far Cry 2 and my XBL name is ChAoS1084. just in case anyone wanted to play)
You know I just thought of a great idea with the whole BYA thing, I think the reason for all the BYA issues most people just don't know that what they are doing is dangerous and that there are fields and organizations out there that play "sanctioned" airsoft games.
Now there are a small percentage of them that are complete dumb asses and don't want to be educated, But the majority of them I just think its all about the lack of knowledge about what airsoft is really about. I just want to get your guys opinion If i made a educational anti-BYA video and posted it on Youtube, do you think that would be a good idea?
I'm not talking about some video of me sitting there saying BYA is bad and you shouldn't do It, I mean an actual legit informational video. Showing why BYA is bad, and even how to find legitimate airsoft organizations. It will be geared toward a younger audience since I've noticed most of the incidents involve the same age group.
If any mods or admins feel this is straying off topic or need to be moved. please feel free to do so, I felt the topic was related and would be good to go here.
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ChAoS
Killing the enemy with superior firepower, profanity, and crude humor.
(I've got COD4 and Far Cry 2 and my XBL name is ChAoS1084. just in case anyone wanted to play)
I agree 100% that most BYA issues are because the kids or teenagers dont realize how stupid what their doing is but I doubt a video will make much difference.
What I have proposed and still firmly believe is that airsoft should require a license. Not some heavy gun license but something low key thing like a fishing license if you want to fish in certain lakes. This way 10 year old kids cant get their hands on an airsoft gun without their parents realizing that airsoft is a serious sport and not some super-soaker.
This way both parties win, minors would still get to play (like me) but the idiotic teen rate of people who get their hands on guns would greatly decline because as soon as parents see the words "license required" a little light bulb goes off and makes them thing more seriously about ever buying their kid a airsoft gun.
The problem is, people do know how stupid BYA is, but they really just don't care, and trying to tell them any different is like talking to a brick wall.
Common sense killed good judgment a long time ago in a murder-suicide pact, and they are never coming back. No matter how hard you try, it is going to be idiots that ruin airsoft. I can almost guarantee that within 5 years airsoft will be regulated in the US, much like real firearms are. Before, we would be able to use people's own stupidity to "thin out the herd" and let Darwinism run its course, but those days are loooong gone.
Another thing is that a lot of parents dont give a damn what their ADD kids do as long as they are quiet and not bothering mom or dad. Case in point, once when I was at Shorty USA's store I watched a kid no older than 12 walk into the store, walk up to the counter and produce a small Glock gas gun from inside his pants and put it on the counter. Myself and the kid behind the counter were appalled at what this child had just done, and when his mother walked in a short time after, she would not even listen to the store clerk that told her her son shouldn't be carrying an airsoft gun around in the manner he was. Now what if that kid walked into a store on the way home with the gas pistol tucked into his pants? I don't see that situation ending well.
Requiring a license for airsoft may curtail some of the stupid, but just because you have a license for something wont stop you from being stupid. Look at what people do with their cars.
__________________ Just saw a man jogging. For recreation. At 3am. Who's he training to be, batman?
Life is a pop quiz, you never know when the test will occur, it's like we are all sitting in the game show audience of life, we should always be ready to hear "You are the next contestant for 'The **** has Hit the Fan!'"
"Dont suffer from PTSD, go out and cause it." -ID Basic Patrol Academy #156
Yea I guess, but still I doubt most parents would even go through the trouble of getting the license for their kid unless they realized how important it is to them. Which would basically be using the lazzyness of the parents to our advantage.
Good point. You know I don't think it will be just one magic solution that will help save airsoft from the damage BYA causes. I think it will be a combination of many different elements to help preserve our beloved sport
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ChAoS
Killing the enemy with superior firepower, profanity, and crude humor.
(I've got COD4 and Far Cry 2 and my XBL name is ChAoS1084. just in case anyone wanted to play)
I think it would help if there were requirements for an airsoft license. Like you would have to go through an airsoft safety training course and pass. But you wouldn't have to pass a test. The instructor would pass or fail you depending on how you act during the program. So only people who are responsible will pass, not dumbasses who answer a few questions right and goof off later.
Got waaay off topic, and this thread was/is not meant to be a police bashing/sympathizing thread. Just a news story.
__________________ Just saw a man jogging. For recreation. At 3am. Who's he training to be, batman?
Life is a pop quiz, you never know when the test will occur, it's like we are all sitting in the game show audience of life, we should always be ready to hear "You are the next contestant for 'The **** has Hit the Fan!'"
"Dont suffer from PTSD, go out and cause it." -ID Basic Patrol Academy #156
Have you ever heard of the bill of rights? the second amendment in particular? The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.
I was arrest as a juvenile once because i did something stupid.. In another time, another life. Should i continue to be punished for that to this day?
Gun control does not prevent crime, statistics clearly show it does not. If criminals seek to get guns they will get them. Or they will perpetrate their crimes with some other form of weapon.
What does a 12 year old taking his parents car have to do with a licensing? An age limit to drive, and a license are two seperate issues. By the way there are millions of illegal immigrants driving around the country without licenses. Are they running over innocent people?
I bet your all for restrictions on ammo too. Or a license to aquire it.
Cops deal with nutjobs and sometimes get shot. Its tragic. But its a risk associated with the job, always has been. You volunteered, no one forced you.
Trampling peoples civil liberties isn't going to bring back any fallen officers. It only makes the country a ****ty place to live in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light-Fighter
Got waaay off topic, and this thread was/is not meant to be a police bashing/sympathizing thread. Just a news story.
Yes it has, i won't continue.
The day i need to take a course, and aquire a liscense to play with toy guns is the day i leave this country and never look back.
Last edited by SAW : 04-03-2009 at 04:19 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Actually, I am all for people owning as many weapons as they can, and owning as much ammo for said weapons as they can. Unlike real firearms though, airsoft does not have a powerful lobby backing it, so when I read stories like this, it will lead to a US version of the VCRB (or whatever its called) Real guns and toy guns are two very different subjects. Airsoft is a hobby, not a right, and therefore much easier to regulate.
You are right, there is rick associated with being a cop, but that risk does not need to be amplified by some stupid teenagers playing with airsoft guns in the street. I know I wouldnt want to be the one to shot a child with a toy gun, I would not want that guilt, but hesitation is what will get you killed.
As far as your past, well, your clearly not typing from the penitentiary, so thats kind of a moot point. But yes, there are certain things that should follow you throughout your life. Learning from mistakes is fine, but its still something someone chose to do.
__________________ Just saw a man jogging. For recreation. At 3am. Who's he training to be, batman?
Life is a pop quiz, you never know when the test will occur, it's like we are all sitting in the game show audience of life, we should always be ready to hear "You are the next contestant for 'The **** has Hit the Fan!'"
"Dont suffer from PTSD, go out and cause it." -ID Basic Patrol Academy #156
Last edited by Light-Fighter : 04-03-2009 at 04:35 PM.
That is just dumb, playing behind an elemetary school. They are 18-19 years old, and you think they would take a minuet and think "Mabey this is a stupid idea"
I agree with Lou, Like it or not. some people by nature are just plain dumb, and just when you think they can't do something so incredibly stupid, they will do it. I'm surprised more cops haven't shot kids for BYA. Just thinking about BYA scares me.
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ChAoS
Killing the enemy with superior firepower, profanity, and crude humor.
(I've got COD4 and Far Cry 2 and my XBL name is ChAoS1084. just in case anyone wanted to play)
You know, I read stuff like this and just cringe. It just enforces my opinion that stupid people should be sterilized at birth. I can just imagine the stupidity flying during said incident. This was handled badly by all parties involved. Yeah sure the police where a little harsh. On the other hand, at there age they should have known better.
Confucius say: Common sense, not so common.
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Hit Quick And Split
What would Dave do?
Guys, the posts in this thread are to show everyone how dangerous and absolutely stupid it is to use or display an airsoft replica in public. It is NOT to discuss whether or not the responding officers handled the situation "correctly." Until you've worked at least a shift as an officer, don't even think you can understand the pressures they face daily. Don't like it, do something about it. Call your local officials, call your Congressman, run for office yourself, I don't care, but until then, do not judge those who have sworn to protect you every day, and do it with "one hand tied behind their backs!" Stay on topic!
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Never forget September 11, 2001...FDNY 343 "Team S.T.A.G."
These are the idiots that are going to end up making Airsoft illegal for the rest of us. I have no sympathy for ANYONE who gets the cops called on them for "playing" airsoft in an unofficial setting.
Society needs to stop blaming the objects and blame themselves. Tell me, where are the parents of these children or teenagers? Who bought them the guns? The parents should be charged to for not doing their job.
I think stopping somebody who is brandishing a gun or a replica in public is smart. It is for the general public's safety. If you didn't know anything about airsoft, and you saw a man waving a gun around running down your street, would you hesitate to call the police?
Playing airsoft near your High School is stupid.
__________________ Friends For Lyfe
Team S.T.A.G.
I reject your western weapons and interject my own (purely reactionary) eastern ones
I think stopping somebody who is brandishing a gun or a replica in public is smart. It is for the general public's safety. If you didn't know anything about airsoft, and you saw a man waving a gun around running down your street, would you hesitate to call the police?
Playing airsoft near your High School is stupid.
I agree, I dont want to get into a big argument over this but what if those where real guns and the school got shot the next day... Then you would be saying the cops didnt do enough. Also it wasnt more then a year or two ago when the VT and Amish shooting happened.
If you have never been a police officer, I personally believe you should never judge because you have no idea what they go through. If they let their guard down for just one time they could die, not only this but add on the mental strain of knowing you could die at work.
If you play airsoft anywhere but on a sanctioned field, then you are stupid and deserve any and all consequences that will happen. These guys that did that are friggin idiots, anyone that brandishes a replica in public is also a friggin idiot. Period
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ChAoS
Killing the enemy with superior firepower, profanity, and crude humor.
(I've got COD4 and Far Cry 2 and my XBL name is ChAoS1084. just in case anyone wanted to play)
So, police abused their power because they took down some jack ass kids at gun point who decided to be stupid and brandish their airsoft weapons in public? Sorry, wrong. Those kids are lucky they didn't get sprayed, tazed, or shot. It is actually good on the officer for having that kind of restraint.
Do you have any idea the stress the cop is going through when going through a situation like this? Do you know how hard it is to go to a situation like that and not get tunnel vision, pay attention to your surroundings, pay attention to your backdrop (if you need to draw), and listen to your radio, all this while trying to keep your adrenaline under control and your hands to not shake? I have only drawn my weapon at work once, and let me tell you, it is something officers don't want to do, but is part of the job.
Their was no abuse of power in this article at all, and if you think there was, well, you dont have the ability to see the forest through the trees as the saying goes.
__________________ Just saw a man jogging. For recreation. At 3am. Who's he training to be, batman?
Life is a pop quiz, you never know when the test will occur, it's like we are all sitting in the game show audience of life, we should always be ready to hear "You are the next contestant for 'The **** has Hit the Fan!'"
"Dont suffer from PTSD, go out and cause it." -ID Basic Patrol Academy #156
Reading the article, it says the incident took place near an IN SESSION SCHOOL. You don't joke around with guns and schools.
Last week someone said "he's got a gun!" at my school because of a kid brandishing a rubber band on his finger. Cue 6 cop cars and police with shotguns putting our school on lockdown.
Because of the proximity to a school, the police had to act as they did, and it seems that the situation was handled appropriately.
I find it hard to believe, however, that not tazing or shooting the kids took any kind of restraint. The article says that "the teens were compliant and the situation was quickly diffused," so there was likely little threatening behavior or reason for a police officer to shoot or taze any of the teenagers.
You don't understand how they showed restraint? Have you ever been face to face with a roid raging, drunk football player that just broke up with his girlfriend and looking for a fight, only to find your back up is still enroute and mr. meathead not responding to verbal commands to get on the ground and put his hands behind his head? So, now Mr. Meathead is looking at the business end of your taser, while cursing you out, threatening you, and still not responding to your commands. Do you have any idea how much restraint it takes to not just drop Mr. Meathead where he stands and deal with him after his first dose or two from you X-26 Taser. Do you realize how much restraint it takes to actually go through your "use of force continuum" and not just jump straight to using a weapon on someone that poses a threat of bodily harm?
You do know that most officers are hurt by "compliant" suspects, right? My officer safety courses always taught us to be more aware of the compliant, because statistically, officers are assaulted more by "compliant" suspects then those that are ready to go 12 rounds with you. In law enforcement, there is no such thing as a "compliant" suspect until they are in cuffed, pated down and in the back of your car.
I really wish people with no law enforcement background or training would stop trying to second guess a responding officers action. Hindsight really is 20/20, isnt it?
__________________ Just saw a man jogging. For recreation. At 3am. Who's he training to be, batman?
Life is a pop quiz, you never know when the test will occur, it's like we are all sitting in the game show audience of life, we should always be ready to hear "You are the next contestant for 'The **** has Hit the Fan!'"
"Dont suffer from PTSD, go out and cause it." -ID Basic Patrol Academy #156
Last edited by Light-Fighter : 04-19-2009 at 07:41 PM.
I simply meant to say that the article does not lead one to believe that these guys were roid-raging, drunk football players threatening officers with bodily harm.
I am not someone with law enforcement background, so I understand that my opinion holds little weight in your eyes.
Again, the situation seems to have been handled correctly, so I see no reason to question the officer's actions.
Why would people make assumptions that the police over stepped their bounds with this call?
First of all, these idiots were playing near a school, now, I don't know if some people have been living under a rock, but in the past decade schools have become a popular place to bust into and shoot defenseless people.
...and it has been proven. No one is safe. Highschools. Colleges, and hell, even freaking Amish schools.
So yes. The person who called the cops was in reasonable grounds, and the police response was also in reasonable grounds.
When responding to a gun call, it is always an "Unknown threat". This could be a confused person. This could be someone who made a mistake by stepping into a school zone without noticing, or this could be four armed students about ready to go shoot up their school. You don't know, and no one is going to make assumptions that everything will be A-OK. Because the moment you do that, people die. Including you.
We had an incident locally here where I delt with kids who were pointing airsoft pistols at people while they were driving, and they ended up getting in our hands at my place of work. Needless to say they messed with the wrong person by pointing an airsoft gun at an off duty police officer...who almost shot them in return. That guy showed some great skill by holding and quickly IDing that the threat was not truly there.
This incident could have gotten ugly. Fast. I believe that people like this DO need to be charged because it is the only way PEOPLE WILL LEARN. If you are going to be a total moron and run around acting like an idiot with replica weapons you deserve every damn thing they can throw on you. I don't care how old you are or if you knew playing airsoft out in public was bad or not. It's common sense. Disorderly Conduct and Inducing Panic are the same charges that we ended up seeing with our three idiots here locally, so it is just as fitting for these four morons.
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Spetsnaz.
Task Force One-Four-One: Support Gunner. Rifleman.
