Once again some insane teenager is turning media against airsoft. Read the article and you will see. What angers me is that the police in the case spend more time blaming airsoft than some disturbed kid who's at fault entirely. :x
Aw, you beat me to the list of usual suspects, Coeus.
I think it's partially the flaw of parenthood - "my kid can't do wrong" or "my kid would never act like that." And while it has its downsides, I feel that it's a heck of a lot better than being paranoid and suspecting your kid of every unsolved crime there is. I.E., Batman as a parent.
Not even about that all that much Ike - just friggin be involved in what your kid does & educate them properly - that kids parents should have been involved in his life and seen that he needed psychiatric help. Yeah its true that sometimes disorders and problems can remain extremely well hidden but more often than not there will be signs. This society is going down the crapper one bad parenting example at a time :(
__________________ "Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong."
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Actually, if this was a case of media bias against airsoft, CNN wouldn't have used this quote---""While I was twisting it, it started to come apart like a toy gun would, like a dollar-store type toy," he said.".
This is just a case of trigger-happy, incompetent police firing without thinking. If they try to place the blame on airsoft, someone will eventually point out that someone could have done this with a spraypainted squirt gun (some of them are pretty convincing PPK clones, especially at a distance), or a real BB/airgun (the metal BB firing kind).
This report actually seemed very neutral, and didn't appear to place the blame on airsoft guns in any way. CNN seemed to be focusing on the fact that other people knew he was using an airsoft gun, and yet the police didn't listen and fired anyway.
trigger happy police?? if i was the cop i would have done the same thing. even if someone says he was using a fake weapon, that is coming from people who are not experts. if it looks like a gun and is pointed in a dangerous direction then you shoot to kill, no if's ands or buts. This is the fault of the kid and parents, no one else. especially not law enforcement. And all you people agree with this opinion are just as sensationalist as the media.
Re: RE: now we have to worry about maniacs as well.
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Originally Posted by Therabbit
trigger happy police?? if i was the cop i would have done the same thing. even if someone says he was using a fake weapon, that is coming from people who are not experts. if it looks like a gun and is pointed in a dangerous direction then you shoot to kill, no if's ands or buts. This is the fault of the kid and parents, no one else. especially not law enforcement. And all you people agree with this opinion are just as sensationalist as the media.
I'm not excusing the parents or the child at all. I'm just saying that it could have been handled better, according to this---
"Nation said Ralph Penley was "angry" because he had spoken to police before he arrived at the school and told them Christopher did not have a real gun. Christopher's younger brother told school officials the same thing, Nation said."---this death could have possibly been avoided if they had paid more attention to what was going on around them. Trigger-happy may have not been the best term, but this was certainly mishandled due to the fact that they did not collect as much information as possible. And from the looks of things, no attempt was made to even contact the child in question during the duration of the situation.
And what's to say the kid didn't switch up to a real gun at some point? You can't be talking to the police and keeping an eye on the kid at the same time.
The kid made himself a threat the second he pointed the "gun" at the officer. The cop did the right thing.
Re: RE: now we have to worry about maniacs as well.
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Originally Posted by Rjaniz
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This is just a case of trigger-happy, incompetent police firing without thinking.
How did you reach THAT conclusion? Toy or not, you point it at an officer and I will support any action the officer takes, including putting a bullet in the offender's head.
Read post above. If the police hadn't sealed themselves in a bubble, so to speak, this could have been avoided.
Although, one wonders if the press would have been WORSE if there had been no shooting.
Could it have been handeled better? Possibly, even hindsight won't tell. Should it have happened at all? No, the father shouldn't have waited until the police were about to gun his son down before he took an active interest in his son's life.
/Don't taunt Randy the Angry Weasel
//If you do taunt for the sake of entertainment, do so from the drivers seat of a very fast car
__________________ "Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong."
-Thomas Fuller
Re: RE: now we have to worry about maniacs as well.
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Originally Posted by Rjaniz
And what's to say the kid didn't switch up to a real gun at some point. You can't be talking to the police and keeping an eye on the kid at the same time.
From what I understand, they had sent a SWAT team in. The police on the outside could have very easily relayed this information in if the police on the outside had been listening.
It's rather...unrealistic to think that he was carrying both an airsoft gun and a real gun. I don't really see what the purpose of that would be, to be honest.
Re: RE: now we have to worry about maniacs as well.
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Originally Posted by Coeus
Could it have been handeled better? Possibly, even hindsight won't tell. Should it have happened at all? No, the father shouldn't have waited until the police were about to gun his son down before he took an active interest in his son's life.
I agree totally, however, I still think that the police went the wrong route.
When the police are REFUSING to listen to the father, who has extremely important information, there's an issue.
RE: Re: RE: now we have to worry about maniacs as well.
Theres the thing that I'm not totally convinced on, and couldn't really determine from the article. I'm far from an expert on police procedure (aside from how they handle drunk & disorderly, but thats another story...) but I would assume that, as has been said, they absolutely MUST TREAT any weapon that may or may not be an actual firearm AS an actual firearm for their own and for public safety. The father said that his son does not own a real gun which says nothing as to A) the son may have purchased or stolen a firearm without the father's knowledge or B) he may have obtained the firearm from one or more accomplices before or during school
There are just WAY too many insane variables in a situation like that to go on the word of people who are extremely emotionally attached to the subject.
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Originally Posted by Rjaniz
ah blast it, you went and posted while i was editing.
Ditto.
__________________ "Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong."
-Thomas Fuller
Re: RE: Re: RE: now we have to worry about maniacs as well.
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Originally Posted by Coeus
Theres the thing that I'm not totally convinced on, and couldn't really determine from the article. I'm far from an expert on police procedure (aside from how they handle drunk & disorderly, but thats another story...) but I would assume that, as has been said, they absolutely MUST TREAT any weapon that may or may not be an actual firearm AS an actual firearm for their own and for public safety. The father said that his son does not own a real gun which says nothing as to A) the son may have purchased or stolen a firearm without the father's knowledge or B) he may have obtained the firearm from one or more accomplices before or during school
There are just WAY too many insane variables in a situation like that to go on the word of people who are extremely emotionally attached to the subject.
I don't think any of us can really make a call on this, in retrospect. Unless a detailed timeline comes out, as well as a detailed report, I don't think it's fair for to place the blame on the police, or the father's...slow speed in getting there, shall we say?
I still do agree that the father should be held to blame for the negligence of his son's situation at home and school (prior to the incident), however.
(Big advocate of teaching parents, to, well, PARENT, instead of letting their kids run cruise control)
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The police aren't at fault. The kid is. It is just a shame because, in light of the death of the kid, the media may cause a witch hunt against airsoft.
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Originally Posted by akbarjr.
The police aren't at fault. The kid is. It is just a shame because, in light of the death of the kid, the media may cause a witch hunt against airsoft.
They're too busy bitching about Saint's Row and Dead Rising to go on a crusade against airsoft. Get back to the media in about 6-8 months, maybe.
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It seems that everytime something like this happens, its everybody's fault but the kid. It ridiculous that people blame things like, airsoft, t.v., games , movies. Whatever happened to "crazy". I think that kid was out of his mind... crazy. Not airsoft, not videogames.... pyscho
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Originally Posted by akbarjr.
It seems that everytime something like this happens, its everybody's fault but the kid. It ridiculous that people blame things like, airsoft, t.v., games , movies. Whatever happened to "crazy". I think that kid was out of his mind... crazy. Not airsoft, not videogames.... pyscho
Which isn't what I was defending initially...anyway...
This is normal, the same thing happened with rock music back in the 50's and has happened with just about every innovation in the entertainment field since then.
Nothing will ever come of it.
Nothing ever comes out of these ridiculous media witch hunts, aside from pointless regulations that don't affect normal operations, but appease the critics.
there was something about this incident on wikipedia, i think the link is en.wikipedia.org/airsoft or something
I learn more and more that wikipedia, much like any other encyclopedia, is only meant as a springboard to further info. Plus, it's open-source so you need to tread carefully.
Jumping in late, but........I am a living testament that horrible, abusive, ignorant, non-involved, parenting can still produce a *cough* normal functioning person if that person is born with a good head on their shoulders and exhibits good ol' fashion common sense. It doesn't make sense to point ANYTHING at a police officer PERIOD, so parenting can either influence you or it may not at all, good or bad or indifferent. Life ending decisions like pointing guns at cops can only be blamed on the INDIVIDUAL.
Jumping in late, but........I am a living testament that horrible, abusive, ignorant, non-involved, parenting can still produce a *cough* normal functioning person if that person is born with a good head on their shoulders and exhibits good ol' fashion common sense. It doesn't make sense to point ANYTHING at a police officer PERIOD, so parenting can either influence you or it may not at all, good or bad or indifferent. Life ending decisions like pointing guns at cops can only be blamed on the INDIVIDUAL.
The point was that this could have been prevented if the parents had actually done their job.
I know perfectly well that people can grow up to live normal lives and act normally, without parents, or with abusive/poor/etc parents.
If a police oficer can reasonably assume that what you are pointing at them is a weapon, they are perfectly within their rights to shoot you. If I can reasonably assume that you are pointing a weapon at me, I am within my rights to shoot you. This is why I only play airsoft at sanctioned fields, but that is another discussion. :)
i feel bad for the cop.
hes most likely going to lose his job
and all of his benifets not to mention
the up comming investigation, media bashing
him and the guilt. sorry guys ive got no sympathy
for the little turd.
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