I have a few KSC GBBs, and they are quite cheaply made, with OK magazines (the seals aren't entirely reliable, even when you keep some gas in them to keep the seals intact). For light usage, or emergency backup-backup-backup type weapons, they are OK at best. The golden rule of Airsoft applies... you get what you pay for.
__________________ "Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong."
-Thomas Fuller
Actually, I just checked a picture and the GBBs that I was talking about are KWC, not KSC, so ignore that post (or this post if/when they get automerged, or admin delete both please). No experience with KSC here, sorry!
__________________ "Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong."
-Thomas Fuller
TM Advantages - Tokyo Marui TM automatic electric guns (AEGs) have been made in Japan since the 1980's and have an excellent reputation for reliability. The manufacturing is very precise and other airsoft manufacturers are catching up to this leader; however, the quality of the TM still makes the brand standout. Out of the box, the feet per second (FPS) is under 300fps; however, they are still very accurate for an airsoft rifle, most can hit a man size target up to 100ft away, a strong competitor on the battlefield. Once upgraded, these rifles are quick to see 400fps ratings. Uses standard parts so parts & accessories are easily obtainable in the USA.
TM Disadvantages - Marui's have plastic bodies which can break if dropped or "leaned on". TM guns are not officially trademarked so any HK or Colt trademarks are removed by "burning" the trademarks off the guns. This will leave a "scar" on the body. They are more expensive to upgrade. It is best to replace all the mech box internals (piston, piston head, bushings, cylinder head...etc) if upgrading to a M120 spring, which can cost approx $200. Most of the AEGs do not come with a high capacity magazine, so typically this is a "must have" accessory purchased with the gun.
CA Advantages - Classic Army is a Hong Kong manufacturer, and players are impressed by theses replicas. They are one of the most popular high-end guns. Their all metal bodies adds weight and realism to the rifle. The fps is over 300 and rifles recently have been rated at 330fps out of the box. They are officially trademarked by Armalite and BT so no "burn marks" on the bodies. They do come with a high capacity magazine, which is 300 rds for M15 and 200 rds for MP5. Needs less aftermarket internal parts to upgrade to an M120 spring. Once upgraded, they typically rate at 365 - 385 fps. CA has the most realistic look & feel AEGs on the market, and are the most popular AEG on the battlefield. Uses standard parts so parts & accessories are easily obtainable in the USA.
CA Disadvantages - The bodies are metal, but not an extremely strong metal (they are not steel). They can still break if dropped or stumbled on. If upgrading the AEG, the piston head, a even cylinder head (recommended) should be replaced.
ICS Advantages - ICS replicas are made in Taiwan and have strong metal bodies. For example the M4's are steel. With the flip top design, the M16/M4s have an easily accessible gear box (nice to have if ever get a bb stuck in the gun). They are officially trademarked by Olympic Arms so no "burn marks" on the rifles. Out of the box they are accurate, shoot far, and rated approx 300+ fps. Also, the M16/M4s have a very high rate of fire. They do come with a high-capacity 450 round magazine for the M4 and 230 round for the MP5's. Uses standard parts so parts & accessories are easily obtainable in the USA. Out of the box, the ICS guns are ready for action.
ICS Disadvantages - At this time, I have seen no issues with the latest ICS AEGs. The newer versions have metal bushings, new motors, and new wire harness. These improved components have addressed the issues found in the older model AEGs.
Most of the stuff Kapowwe says is wrong. ICS guns are pretty bad until they get re-opened and fixed, hell after that they still might horrible.
/Nice rip from Kapowwe though!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjaniz
Last thing we need is 15 Australian generals running around.
The "burn marks" are for enforcement of US copyright. Even though CA licenses some trades, and WA others, US Customs still has a rich and robust history of impounding and destroying airsoft guns bearing recognizable trademarks, regardless of validity.
While they're technically in the wrong, there's very little you can say about a certain Japanese company licensing a certain Italian firearm maker that would convince them not to incinerate them. If you choose to keep trades, you risk losing your shipment from overseas, hence the fact that no foreign retailer will offer money back if you don't permanently remove trades.
Such is life.
As for metal bodies, they're almost all cheap pot metal or other brittle materials. Replicas in most countries cannot be made with anything that could possibly maybe withstand the pressures of a real cartridge, hence the brittle by design. I've snapped metal bodies in normal use, and had plastic ones outlast others. Depends on manufacturer, the day, how you play, who was asleep on QA in Taiwan that day, tides, phase of moon, etc.
Otherwise, excellent word for word ripoff of another site without citing references. Excellent! Might I suggest a vibrant career in the New York Post?
Ok so its from Kapowwe, I buy from quite a few places and have owned just about every common make of airsoft gun and what is posted there holds fairly true for the most part. I don't see where they talked down about TM and basically from my own experience the CA guns are pretty decent. Maybe I'm at the wrong place as I neglected to push the TM as the only gun that anyone should consider. My experience has shown me to consider more than one option, its one of those to each his own deals.
I've had upgrades done by Kapowwe with no complaints and upgrades done by others with no complaints so I don't see aywhere that one knows more than the other, but maybe you're just a bit more in the know than I am. Honestly I posted the info as an open guide for people new to the action. I did not referrence Kapowwe as I did not want to advertise for any specific company selling guns as I thought it was against forum rules or at the least a bit underhanded as I have found many reputable and decent dealers out there. However you have corrected me and I will most certainly push certain websites over others. Gee...I would never have guessed that you guys are familiar with every website that sells airsoft guns....go figure.
I also am a pretty good customer of ShortyUSA, Airsoft GI, as I purchase quite a few Items for myself and two other players, both who are my sons. I'm sure that with only two short years of airsofting experience most here are much more well versed than I am.
Last edited by Rover8541 : 02-05-2007 at 12:12 AM.
Errr...Perhaps you should read the thread, its about a FIRST AEG.
If you have purchased several AEGs, then you would have experience with them in the 2 years you have owned them. What most would want to hear are your experience with your purchases and better still if you put it in the context of someone purchasing their first gun - as the thread states.
Options are nice, if you can afford them. But costs go beyond a purchase price. Try to go to the Maintenance section of any airsoft forum and read the heartbreak of a lot of first time purchasers - who considered their options based on marketing blurb.
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"...The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone..." Verbal Kint
Errr...Perhaps you should read the thread, its about a FIRST AEG.
If you have purchased several AEGs, then you would have experience with them in the 2 years you have owned them. What most would want to hear are your experience with your purchases and better still if you put it in the context of someone purchasing their first gun - as the thread states.
Options are nice, if you can afford them. But costs go beyond a purchase price. Try to go to the Maintenance section of any airsoft forum and read the heartbreak of a lot of first time purchasers - who considered their options based on marketing blurb.
I agree thats why I didn't push any one brand just put out some information I had seen and thought would be good to share as it covered the higher end popular guns. I'm open to any brand which is why I just purchased the TeamSD M-14 which I'm sure is probably made in the same factory as the UTG M-14, I gave my opinion in the appropriate thread based on my experience with the gun, I do see quite a leaning to TM products here and I stated I'm certain it comes from personal experience but there are other brands out there that seem to perform reliably also and I thought that the Kapowwe info was pretty unbiased as it told of the strengths and weaknesses of those three brands.
I'm pretty well aware that not every airsoft player can afford those three brands but I also would never rate the quality of a player based on the brand of the gun he/she carries, doing that would be a bit pretentious on someones part and quite honestly a hit by a TM hurts the same as a hit by a UTG.
I'm a big believer in if you're having fun with your airsoft gun don't worry too much about the opinion of the guy who's more concerned with what brand he has than the fact that the game is just a ****load of fun.
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ADDED THIS:
Hey your right, I reread the advice given in this post and everything but TM is crap as its stated. They might be plastic and suffer from barrel wobble but they arent the crap that all the others put out. My bad....you are the god I shall worship in the next battle.
Last edited by Rover8541 : 02-05-2007 at 01:09 AM.
Hey your right, I reread the advice given in this post and everything but TM is crap as its stated. They might be plastic and suffer from barrel wobble but they arent the crap that all the others put out. My bad....you are the god I shall worship in the next battle.
Please take your attitude and go away.
YOU don't come to our field every week and see little kids on the verge of crying because their new leet roxorz $120 rifle that they saved up for breaks after only 3 months of occasional play.
YOU don't have to tell them "I'm sorry, then you can't play" when their gun destroys itself. Or when the battery only lasts through 2 skirmishes. Or when the hop up breaks. Or explain to them that the gun only shoots 400 FPS with .12g BBs.
If you had bothered to read ANY OTHER thread in this forum, you would see that we recommend TMs to NEW people for a reason -- because they are the most dependable. Sure they have their problems, but they don't break as readily as the other guns do. And THAT is why we recommend them. This game is about fun, and you can't have fun if your ****ing gun is broken. Also, if you had taken the time to read ANY OTHER thread in this forum, you would see that although we do push TMs for newbies, we really don't care what the newbs shoot -- IF IT SHOOTS, IT'S PLAYABLE.
Go right ahead and buy into what a DISTRIBUTOR tells you. They aren't after your money and must be telling the truth. Never mind that we have SEEN the new ICS "improved design" fail on the first magazine fired through it. Never mind that we play more in a month than most people do in an average year. Never mind that I have personally had a G&G fail after only 2 months, and a CA destroy itself after a year (and I take care of my guns). Those metal bodies make them soooooooooo much better. Never mind that we have STOCK TMs still shooting after 4 years of use.
Don't mind us, we clearly don't know what we are talking about.
YOU don't come to our field every week and see little kids on the verge of crying because their new leet roxorz $120 rifle that they saved up for breaks after only 3 months of occasional play.
YOU don't have to tell them "I'm sorry, then you can't play" when their gun destroys itself. Or when the battery only lasts through 2 skirmishes. Or when the hop up breaks. Or explain to them that the gun only shoots 400 FPS with .12g BBs.
If you had bothered to read ANY OTHER thread in this forum, you would see that we recommend TMs to NEW people for a reason -- because they are the most dependable. Sure they have their problems, but they don't break as readily as the other guns do. And THAT is why we recommend them. This game is about fun, and you can't have fun if your ****ing gun is broken. Also, if you had taken the time to read ANY OTHER thread in this forum, you would see that although we do push TMs for newbies, we really don't care what the newbs shoot -- IF IT SHOOTS, IT'S PLAYABLE.
Go right ahead and buy into what a DISTRIBUTOR tells you. They aren't after your money and must be telling the truth. Never mind that we have SEEN the new ICS "improved design" fail on the first magazine fired through it. Never mind that we play more in a month than most people do in an average year. Never mind that I have personally had a G&G fail after only 2 months, and a CA destroy itself after a year (and I take care of my guns). Those metal bodies make them soooooooooo much better. Never mind that we have STOCK TMs still shooting after 4 years of use.
Don't mind us, we clearly don't know what we are talking about.
Sorry if I came off as having bad attitude, I didn't mean to come off that way. It just seems that there is a very condescending attitude towards anybody who uses anything other than TM, if its not meant that way it most definately comes across that way.
I was a bit worried that perhaps that kid who just spent his savings on a $120.00 UTG was going to feel grossly inadequate when they show up at a game as the guy they might look up to calls their pride a piece of crap, that can often hurt a kid more than a gun that broke.
I'm glad to see that you take this game as fun, I was getting a bit worried that there was this life devotion and "better than thow" attitude based on a brand of gun. Glad to see your reasoning behind your recommendations.
My own experiences have shown the CA to be a bit better all around, although I've never seen a TM fail to shoot I have seen them snapped in half from agressive play, thats as much or more of a bummer than having a gear box or hop up fail.
Thanks for the lashing...it hurts in a good kind of way.
What the hell do you consider 'agressive' play? Whaling against a tree?
I've thrown TMs to the ground, fallen on rock and other surfaces with them and they STILL are fine. Yeah I've seen TMs break apart as well, but usually it takes far more than simply "leaning" on them to get that to happen.
It just seems that there is a very condescending attitude towards anybody who uses anything other than TM, if its not meant that way it most definately comes across that way.
Someone posted something like this somewhere else on the site, but I don't feel like looking for it. So here it is again. Simply put, we don't mind it when people buy crap guns. What does bother us is when someone buys a crap gun despite all the advice they have been given, or all the posts made about that gun that says "Don't buy this ever" and then whines when it breaks. What we know comes from experience in actually using these airsoft guns, and not what we read on other websites.
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Dave kill us all. Except for you. He just doesn't love you.
i disagree about UTG. I woudnt have spent 110 dollars on my UTG MP5 if it wasnt good, even though there are some problems with it, I think its still a pretty good gun. go to shortyusa.com and read the 790 reviews then youll see why i think that. but hey, what do i know?
It just seems that there is a very condescending attitude towards anybody who uses anything other than TM, if its not meant that way it most definately comes across that way.
You aren't the first person that has told us that. When I get home, I'll take a look at the post and maybe re-write it to avoid these misunderstandings.
We really don't care what people play with (as long as it falls within our FPS limits). This whole thread was borne out if the frustration of having to answer the same questions EVERY week. People still don't read it.
i disagree about UTG. I woudnt have spent 110 dollars on my UTG MP5 if it wasnt good, even though there are some problems with it, I think its still a pretty good gun. go to shortyusa.com and read the 790 reviews then youll see why i think that. but hey, what do i know?
They might work for casual (read: not week after week in almost any conidtion) gaming - my brother's been using his UTGs for two games now without any problems other than battery drain. So it's not that they'll die after a game or two. In the grand scheme of things, though, UTG's quality is still questionable. I think you only have to look at how many "versions" their MP5 went through. I think it's still too early to say "okay this is marui quality at half the price" because it hasn't been more than a year that they've gone without rereleasing something.
If you use a UTG continuously, week in and week out for a year, and the only thing you do to it is keep it clean and lubed, and it still works after a year, then that'll change a lot of minds. 790 reviews on Shorty (including reviews by people who DON'T OWN IT BUT THEIR FRIEND HAS ONE) isn't going to come close to real experience with it.
We really don't care what people play with (as long as it falls within our FPS limits). This whole thread was borne out if the frustration of having to answer the same questions EVERY week. People still don't read it.
I feel your pain. You guys seem like a good bunch which is why I registered here and I do look forward to going to some battles. Again I apologize for the attitude I came across with, hope there was no harm done.
Just to introduce myself:
I'm from the Reading area and have two sons, 13 and 18 who became interested in airsoft 3+ years ago. We went through many guns from the $14.99 spring specials to the high end TM, CA etc...
I became interested mostly after they got their asses waxed, in a local game, by a guy with military experience and I decided it was time for me to teach them some tactics that I came to know after spending a few years as a 0311 rifleman/fireteam leader and as an 8541 scout sniper...needless to say they became quite adept at fire and maneuvering and they asked whether I would be willing to let them put together a team that they could go to events as a group. So thats where I am right now.
I really don't actively participate to much during a game other than to hang back and give a bit of direction to them or act as their team sniper or sniper hunter depending on the situation.
I'm also curious if anyone has any experience with the airsoft claymores or pressure mines and are they allowed in a game?
Again I apologize for the attitude I came across with, hope there was no harm done.
Feh, don't worry about it. Inflection and tone don't translate well through text, and it's hard to know how people really are through reading.
Quote:
I'm also curious if anyone has any experience with the airsoft claymores or pressure mines and are they allowed in a game?
I've only ever seen one of the claymores (the mousetrap type), and I thought it worked pretty well. IIRC, it was around $150, but I didn't think it worked well enough for me to spend that kind of money. I can't think of any reason not to use them in games (other than the cost).
The pressure mines are made to expel powder and are pretty unimpressive. The Madbull ones are about 4" in diameter and powered by green gas. I've honestly never seen one work, but a LOT of people we play with aren't really interested in getting powder all over their gear, so nobody really pursued them.
As stated in the forum rules, if you can't say something nice, please don't say anything. Calling your brother names does nothing for you here. We don't know who either of you are.
The echo 1s will probably suffer the same technological complications that other clones do. However, I haven't heard too much on them. They're still new, and not as hot as the UTG was when it debuted.
There are plenty of other Airsoft brands part from the ones many of you have mentioned. For example, if you go to wgcshop.com they have a variety of brands most of you (including myself) have never heard of. Now, I don't know all about these, but they might be worth a shot. Especialy the Jet Custom RAISEN.
We know that there are a wide variety of AEG's out there. This thread is intended to give people new to the hobby an idea of what they might want. We suggest TM's for their reliability based off of our experiences.
Quote:
1. Nobody here at c3 cares what type of gun you have. Our motto has always been “If it shoots, it’s playable”. If YOU are happy with your AEG, then we are happy for you. Players are just as “dead” when hit by a $10 spring pistol as they are when hit by a $1,000 sniper rifle. We really just want you to play safely and have fun.
2. The views expressed in this post are MY opinion and are based on MY experience. You are welcome to disagree, but I believe what I am saying is true.
3. If you have already bought an AEG – STOP READING. This guide is for people NEW to the sport and considering their first gun. It is not intended for even occasional players.
4. If you are a new player that went ahead and bought a gun without doing any research, your feelings might get hurt reading this. This was NEVER my intention. This was written to prevent new users, especially our younger members, from making expensive mistakes.
5. Airsoft is an EXPENSIVE hobby. There is no way around this fact. Quality AEGs are expensive, but expensive AEGs aren’t always quality.
6. Reviews on retailer’s websites should NOT be believed. Often, they are written by people who have just ordered or just received their gun. Even the product descriptions on retailer websites should be taken with a grain of salt – THEY want your money, and nobody ever advertises the negative aspects of a product. If you want the real facts about a particular gun, talk to the PLAYERS. Read reviews on this and other player owned websites.
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"When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy."
There are plenty of other Airsoft brands part from the ones many of you have mentioned. For example, if you go to wgcshop.com they have a variety of brands most of you (including myself) have never heard of. Now, I don't know all about these, but they might be worth a shot. Especialy the Jet Custom RAISEN.
Actually, you would probably be surprised what most of us here have heard of.
Again, this is the "New User's Section". Are you seriously recommending an out of stock $600 custom gun for people new to airsoft? Why do you think that is a good idea? How much experience do you have with upgraded guns from HK?
This is not the thread to ask if your gun is good or who makes what gun you want.
There hasn't been much addition to this thread since it started.
This thread is OPINION and trying to help NEW USERS get into airsoft with the least amount of headaches. If you don't like what's stated here, you are more than welcome to. However, so far, there hasn't been one commenter that has made a convincing argument to contradict what was stated in the first post.
In short, buy what you want, and if it works out for you, awesome. But our 52 GAMES-A-YEAR, for 5+ years, experience boils the information down to what you see in the first post.
Alright, I know that there is already a thread on this, but it is locked, so I am putting up a new one. I am not basing my information from experience, but from what other experienced players have told me on this forum and on extensive research that I have been doing in the past few weeks.
You’re Style
Everyone's playing style is different. Some people are the middle of the fray automatic type. Others are the types that like to lay down the fire with an lmg. Others are the ones who will bury themselves in leaves to hide themselves and wait for an hour for someone to pop up in their sights. Whatever style is yours is all up to you. Just make sure that when you are buying your first gun, you are sure of your style. Airsoft is an expensive sport, and it would be sad to see you spend a ton of money on a gun that doesn't fit your playing style. Here I will review the play-styles a little bit in more detail.
Assault/Ranger
As a ranger, you are the first to see the action, and you are the meat of the team. Without you, there could be no war. Your childhood dream was to go into the Army. Your favorite movies are Black Hawk Down, Platoon, and We Were Soldiers. Your favorite video games are Call of Duty 4, Halo 1-3, and Rainbow 6 Series. You enjoy being in the middle of the fray, and you don't mind/ accept that you WILL get hit. You also enjoy the chain of command, receiving orders and executing a drawn out plan. You must also take in mind that you are not the Terminator, Rambo, or Obi Wan Kenobi and you are not invincible. There is no health bar in RL, and once you’re hit, you’re out for the count. On a more serious note (What is he talking about, I took that word for word?!), there is also a lot of flexibility when you go to buy an airsoft gun as a ranger. You can by a gun for as low as $100 (suggested minimum) or as high as $2000+ if you feel like it. If you want a generally inexpensive gun with great quality, I would greatly recommend a JG or Echo-1. They are great guns for the price, and they will not let you down. Before anyone disagrees, I would also like to say that you get what you pay for. If you want a gun that is more reliable, and you have a few more dollars to spend than I do, you should go with a Tokyo Marui. They are super-reliable, and the best bang for your buck. You cannot go wrong here. TM’s will range from $200 - $400ish. Oh, I forgot to mention what MODEL of gun you should get. An AK, M16, M4, G36C, MP5, P90, basically anything that has a full-auto switch on it.
Heavy Gunner/Support Gunner
As a support gunner, you are an unselfish, human being, who is not bothered at all by laying down fire for your teammates so that they can get the kill and complete their objective. You are generally strong, and you don’t mind lugging around a 15-20 pound gun to where you are needed at any given time. You’re childhood hero was Rambo, and you will find yourself shouting “GET SOME!!!”(from Apocalypse Now), at any given time. I actually would NOT recommend getting and LMG as a first gun because one, there are somewhat complex and require extensive care, and two, because they are very expensive (For a first gun). They are found at a starting price around $350 at the lowest, and you will need to buy a lot of bb’s to supply your gun. But, if this is really you, I’m not stopping you. It’s really your decision.
Sniper/Marksman
You are more patient than I am (I have ADD). You wait patiently for your kills, and you will not scratch a bad itch if it means risking getting seen. You were a child phenom at playing hide and go seek, and you had contemplated going pro. You enjoy stalking people and will refresh your crush’s facebook page every other minute to see if she got your message. Haha, only kidding. Or am I? Please don’t shoot me, I know you’re watching and I’m sorry, really! I am! You practice holding your breath, and you are shooting for the world record this weekend. Your motto is “One shot, one kill” and you will be a sniper in every video game, no matter how bad the sniper in that game is. You conserve you’re ammo, and you’re not worried that you have 3 bullets left. You’re favorite movies are Sniper and Shooter, and you were Legolas for Halloween last year. Anyway, getting a sniper is definetly not recommended for first-time players, because it will limit you on what you can do if sniping is not for you. It is not like in video games where you run around with a rifle and own noobs. You have to sit in a strategic spot and wait for your targets to come to you. Yes I know you will get hungry, but you left that chewy bar back at camp, so get over it. Anyway, a sniper is a very complex airsoft gun to buy, because there are decent one’s priced around $100, but if you want a good one that will not break/ need repair after a while, it’s around $500. You also have to keep in mind that usually scopes do not come with the rifle, and you have to buy one separately. A good idea would be to also get a side-arm, generally a pistol, just in case you run into a stick situation. The good thing about getting a sniper though is that there is no battery or charger to buy, and there are fewer internal parts to break. You still should be very careful not to drop your gun while playing.
Other Basic Needs
If you are getting an AEG, besides the gun, you will also need:
• A charger
• An extra battery (highly recommended)
• A mask/ballistic goggles
• Ammo (of course)
If you are getting an LMG, besides the gun, you will also need:
• A charger
• An extra LARGE battery (highly recommended)
• A mask/ballistic goggles
• A TON of ammo
If you are getting a sniper, besides the gun and scope, you will also need:
• A speed loader
• A mask/ballistic goggles
• Ammo
Here’s a recap of the companies that I recommend:
1. Echo 1
2. JG
3. Tokyo Marui
Of course there are others, but those are the ones that you’ll want to look at if you are buying your first gun. If anyone has any comments/complaints, feel free to reply. Also, C3 Airsoft doesn’t care what gun you have. If it shoots, it’s playable. We just want you to have fun. Thanks, Misery Flush
Because it is locked, and there is still a lot of threads with people asking what gun they should get for their first gun. I wanted a new place to centralize these questions. Also, having a second opinion is more re-assuring when someone is looking for important information. That is why people sometimes go to another doctor for a second opinion.
When its locked it means that nobody can post there. It is stickied so that when you go into the new users section you can see all the important threads. This one is the same thing and if there weren't another thread like this, it would end up the same way.
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Jesus Christ Timmy!!! Dont float above me while im dying in the abyss!!!!!!
-Dane Cook
If the moon were made of spare ribs, would ya eat em?
I understand this, but I'm wrote this thread here mainly so that all the "First Gun" posts would go here instead of cluttering the forum. If I did something wrong, then of course the admins may delete this thread. I'm sorry if I've caused any trouble.
don't forget extra mags unless thats what you mean by ammo. don't forget gear to hold all your stuff and for milslim style. and for a little extra pistol and knife.
__________________ [The Code of Conduct of ROK Forces in Vietnam]
1. To the enemy, Be courageous and fearful.
2. To the Vietnamese people, Behave with kindness and warmness.
3. To our allies, show them we are well disciplined and reliable. Vietnam Airsoft Group浪人Team Ronin-MUSTARD JAR!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been reading a lot of threads and most people are saying that guns under$200 dollars aren't very reliable at all. Before I read this I was looking at this gun:
A lot of people are saying that Echo 1's are good starting guns. This gun would be my first AEG if I bought it. Does anyone recommend that I should not get it?
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"When eliminated, at your discretion, you may feign real death for added realism. To do this, simply lie down and stop moving." 21st Airsoft Marine Division
If you can, save up for Tokyo Marui. Although Echo 1 may seem reliable, nothing compares to a stock TM. I am not saying that you should not get it, however, you wont be let down by a TM.
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In your castle. Killin' your people.
ok thanks for the advice. I think what I'm going to do is first buy an Echo 1 and then next buy a TM because I don't have enough money yet for a TM.
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"When eliminated, at your discretion, you may feign real death for added realism. To do this, simply lie down and stop moving." 21st Airsoft Marine Division
I would buy an Echo-1 first. They are good starter guns for a fairly cheap price. If you like airsoft after a couple of games than you can buy a better gun like a TM. Just in case you do play and find you don't like it than you didn't waste 200+ dollars on a gun that you will never use again.
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Jesus Christ Timmy!!! Dont float above me while im dying in the abyss!!!!!!
-Dane Cook
If the moon were made of spare ribs, would ya eat em?
If you can, save up for Tokyo Marui. Although Echo 1 may seem reliable, nothing compares to a stock TM. I am not saying that you should not get it, however, you wont be let down by a TM.
so far, there hasn't been one commenter that has made a convincing argument to contradict what was stated in the first post.
The first post doesn't mention KWA and they are top notch. Most people I play with consider them the best. Sure, that is always going to be debatable, but they are excellent first guns.
CYMA does make low end toys, and they really do makes "toys" as I have a $13 UZI by them, but some of their new offerings are solid. I picked up a CM032A (the SOCOM 16) just because it looked like a solid loaner and it has become one of my favorites. I have only had it for a few months so I will be sure to check back in if anything goes wrong with it.
I think the point of this post was to inform and to warn.
To warn people that they are gambling with their money if they rely on certain guns that aren't quality.
To inform people about the brands to watch out for, and the ones that have shown to be promising from people who have been airsofting for a while.
So when Rjaniz said that there have been no convincing arguements, I think he is right. Just because someone says that some brand has been holding up for them, it doesn't change the fact that some people do have problems with these guns. That is why this post was started in the first place, to help the NEW USERS. So when all of the people chip in about how their couple month old gun is good, it is only straying from the point that it is for new people and to ensure that they have the most fun airsofting possible. And to do that they should invest the amount of money into airsofting that they think will perform best for them.
If you look at the date of the first post, you would see that it was written well before KWAs were popular.
I have one, and in the two games I have played with it, it hasn't let me down. However, this isn't enough time for me to give it a stellar review. Unlike posters on some other forums, I actually like to see how a gun performs in the long run before telling others that is is awesome. In my opinion, the KWA M4s and their new gearbox haven't been out long enough for anyone to say anything definitive about them. So far, so good, but I can say that about Echo-1 too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Daniel Martin
CYMA does make low end toys, and they really do makes "toys" as I have a $13 UZI by them, but some of their new offerings are solid. I picked up a CM032A (the SOCOM 16) just because it looked like a solid loaner and it has become one of my favorites. I have only had it for a few months so I will be sure to check back in if anything goes wrong with it.
This is what I fundamentally object to in online reviews. Claims of "they are solid" when you have only had the gun for "a few months" and use as a loaner. I feel that isn't enough experience to make a reasonable judgment on the quality of the gun, and quite honestly, to me sounds more like "I have this gun so it must be awesome" chest-beating that kids love to post.
If you look at the date of the first post, you would see that it was written well before KWAs were popular.
Hey, in English. Maybe it's a typo.
I noticed the date and I also noticed it had been updated. KWA is the most popular brand where I play. I just thought it was odd that it wasn't mentioned. If you give it the same respect as the JG/E1 it should at least get a mention.
Just as a side note JG was originally just a parts supplier and then decided to to start assembling them but had no experience in that area so that be the initial difference in quality compared to E1. I'm thinking that gap will be closing. We'll see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P7hk9
This is what I fundamentally object to in online reviews. Claims of "they are solid" when you have only had the gun for "a few months" and use as a loaner. I feel that isn't enough experience to make a reasonable judgment on the quality of the gun, and quite honestly, to me sounds more like "I have this gun so it must be awesome" chest-beating that kids love to post.
I'm not reviewing it and saying it was a great gun, just that it isn't a toy. I really would not worry about dropping it as it isn't cheap plastic and doesn't compare to the other brands listed there in the beginning. It's externals are solid and the internals have not failed or misfired yet but, like I said, I haven't had it long, and that is the reason I mentioned that. If I wanted to chest beat I could come up with something better, but for a cheap ass gun it has been impressive so far.
Last edited by Joshua Daniel Martin : 06-17-2008 at 11:40 PM.
Reason: Bad Engrish
The date of the first post can't be a typo. And, like I said, KWAs didn't become really popular until they released their M4 version. You don't see PTWs in my list either, even though I know of quite a few people that use them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Daniel Martin
If you give it the same respect as the JG/E1 it should at least get a mention.
My post isn't about respect, it's about guns that I have experience with and my opinion of them. Had you taken the time to look around on the forums, you would see that I have posted my first impressions of the KWA M4 elsewhere, but only when asked a specific question about the gun. I didn't post how it is "top notch". Again, it's just a matter of me not having that much trigger time with it yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Daniel Martin
Just as a side note JG was originally just a parts supplier and then decided to to start assembling them but had no experience in that area so that be the initial difference in quality compared to E1. I'm thinking that gap will be closing. We'll see.
I certainly hope they do. Inexpensive, reliable AEGs are a benefit to all airsofters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Daniel Martin
I'm not reviewing it and saying it was a great gun, just that it isn't a toy.
That is exactly what you did. Please reread what you wrote. In fact, you went on to further your review of it right after your previously quoted sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Daniel Martin
If I wanted to chest beat I could come up with something better, but for a cheap ass gun it has been impressive so far.
I wasn't saying YOU were beating your chest. I don't know you or your intent, but you aren't the first person to register here to complain about the original post. I am saying that your post sounds like every little kid that got pissed off that I have a bad opinion or didn't include his gun.
My bottom line is simple: If you don't like the original post...I don't care. You are entitled to your opinion, and you can certainly spend your money how you see fit. However, I will fight to keep these forums free of the kind of bull**** reviews that ASR and the larger forums are littered with. How a gun looks when you take it out of the box is good to know, but it doesn't tell me how it's going to hold up after 250,000 rounds fired in all weather conditions. The problem is, younger players don't have enough life experience to realize these "out of box" reviews are mostly bull****. They see a good review online and think, "Well, it got a good review, it must be a great gun.", and they spend their hard earned money on a gun that breaks right away.
Just as a side note JG was originally just a parts supplier and then decided to to start assembling them but had no experience in that area so that be the initial difference in quality compared to E1
uh, JG and E1 are the same guns. Echo1 just rebrands them.
Quote:
I'm not reviewing it and saying it was a great gun, just that it isn't a toy.
I don't follow. They're all toys. That's all airsoft is... toy guns.
I wasn't saying YOU were beating your chest. I don't know you or your intent, but you aren't the first person to register here to complain about the original post. I am saying that your post sounds like every little kid that got pissed off that I have a bad opinion or didn't include his gun.
