When TM debuted this back in October, my interest was initially piqued by the bolt catch. It was a cool feature on the cost-prohibitive systemas PTWs and I was thrilled to see it in a Marui. Though I thought that was it in terms of TM's latest "innovation." They've been having a run of guns where "innovation" is 1 little feature and "tada! it's new and improved!" That has never been innovation to me, that was just upgrading.
But then I saw the new battery and knew something than just a bolt catch was going on here. TM doesn't redesign their battery systems on a whim, so I began looking at it much closer. And in doing so I became as excited as I had been about a gun since first getting into Airsoft. This new M4 IS innovation. This is a complete redesign of what they've made thus far.
It's main new features:
Bolt Catch
New Crane stock (with a new type of battery)
Full metal
New type of hopup
Recoil
Blow back
Able to take Real-Steel Parts
mags that switch from 30 & 82 round capacity.
I immediately wanted one. And as a Christmas Gift, my family got together and made the purchase for me. However, thanks to the "wonderful" USPS, they didn't deliver it until the 29th of December. Apparently their shipping areas shut down on the 24th, 25th and the 26th.
Still, I got it now, so let's take a look at this thing.
Judging by packaging, the gun came from RedWolf, and it solved the mystery of why it didn't arrive on the 25th. As I've said elsewhere, Redwolf is both good and bad, to me. Redwolf does a better job of having "kinda permanent cover" for Trades, which are fairly easily removed, and once they are my trades are going to be intact and pretty.
But because they LOVE using the USPS system for me, and delays are obvious and really knocks it down in terms of wanting to buy from them. Had this been ordered from WGCshop.com, I would've been opening this puppy up on Christmas Day. WGC uses TNT, and for the same amount of cash I'm sure was paid, TNT would've had it here in 2 days. But, again, i would've also had to deal with destroyed trademarks.
Give a little, take a little, I guess.
Still, everything seemed safe and secure and so I looked at what all had ordered by my family.
1 Gun
1 Standard Mag
1 Hi-Cap Mag
1 Battery
1 Battery Charger
invoice reads: $671.00
Bless them.
Carefully cutting the package to reveal the box inside is a treat. I love TM's presentation of their guns. The M733 was the first of it's kind to have a cool package, and this M4 follows the tradition along nicely. It just looks great.
Looking inside, I see a battery-charger converter for the new type of battery and I'm annoyed by this. Throughout the entire introduction of this gun, the charger had been sitting next to the gun & battery acting like it's required somehow.
It's not. YOU DO NOT NEED TO BUY A NEW CHARGER. The engineers at TM thought of everything, they included a converter so all you have to do is hook it into your existing charger(with a mini-connector). The marketing over at TM needs to be kicked in the teeth though. This was money wasted that could've been spent on another magazine.
Either way, I pull the battery from it's packaging and begin charging, we'll play with that in a minute. Right now, it's time to fondle this gun.
Lifting the gun out of it's case reveals the gun is not light. Retailers and the review I've seen online say it's a little over 3kilos. That's about 7lbs for those of you playing at home. That is cool because it's also the same weight as the real-steel M4. I would have to say it's just as solid as the two CAs M4s I've owned in the past, initially. But I wouldn't put too much stock in that yet as my standard TM M4 RIS was very solid at first... now it's a tad wobbley even after I tighten down all screws.
So I'll have to see what's what after a couple of games.
Shouldering the weapon is pretty much what you'd expect. Dropping the mag, and it slides right out without even waiting for my hand to get there.
Oddly enough, this thing has no sling swivel on the front. I haven't a clue why. Personally, I think this is a bad call on TM's part. You're having everyone change over everything from batteries, to mags, and now you need a new type of sling. Thanks a lot guys...
I'm also not a fan of this type of iron sight. They seem too bulky to me. I prefer the sleek, flip-up, sight that came with the Echo1 M4s. so I expect I'll be changing over soon. Still, it's nice for what it is.
The mags are particularly ingenious. With a flip of a switch, they can go from 30 round to 82 round capacity. It's obvious TM is trying to appeal to the training crowd on this feature. It also uses a very simplistic arm feature to activate the bolt release.
The HiCap is a needed comprimise when starting out, and I'm loving that TM thought far enough ahead to allow it. One of the problems of a PTW is you can't build up your mag setup, you either buy all at once, or you're left crippled until you can. TM was kind enough to allow a 430 round magazine for people to play with until they can afford to outfit themselves correctly (and I WILL be doing that).
The HiCap, however, doesn't activate the bolt feature of the gun. What would have been cool would be when you crank, you're pulling the arm down, and when it runs out of "tension" the arm goes up. But this is such a small thing that it's just a whimsical thought and nothing more.
Some people have asked if you lose BBs in the midsts of a tactical change (changing without the mag being dry).
Answer: Yes. You do lose BBs. I lost 2 per reload. This isn't a surprise. It's still an airsoft gun, after all, based on nozzels and what not.
Well, by now the battery is charged, so let's go shoot something...
Since I live in the middle of town, I can't comment on accuracy, the hopup, or distance just yet (need to get to the field), but firing into a couple of cardboard boxes in my basement leads me to one conclusion:
This thing is cool.
I'm used to the M4 that has almost 0 recoil. A bolt that doesn't move. A sound that is akin to a pissed off sewing machine.
Now, there's this M4. And while the changes on the whole are great, the recoil is the one thing I think could have been left on the shelf.
The M4 has recoil, but it's more just "shaking" than it is recoil. There's really no pressure on my shoulder. Instead, I just felt the need to pull the gun more to my shoulder to keep it steady. I wonder if the recoil has any affect on my accuracy at the time of this writing, and only time will tell.
The bolt sound is, however, very redeeming. It sounds like a gas blow back with a pissed-off sewing machine running background vocals. A nice deep-sounding "thwack" as it does its work. Very cool.
The bolt catch is just a thing of joy. You're firing, and all of a sudden, your gun stops. Before, you'd dread it happening, but with this gun it was just fun. Drop mag, load fresh, slap the bolt, and you're back in business. It's a gimmick, and a helluva fun one at that.
The M4 overall feels very comfortable and SOLID. I've never had a crane stock gun before, but I can see why people like them. It's outstretched sides are like a pillow. Out of the box, there isn't even a hint of barrel wobble, and I'm hoping that stays true.
Final Introductory Thoughts:
While the recoil has left me rather unimpressed, the bolt and blowback feature are great gimmicks. A very solid gun with a satisfying sound. The new battery is a stroke of genius and I'm thrilled I don't have to worry about wires in the crane on this gun.
Is it worth it for the average player to pick it up right now? While I am smiling ear to ear for having this thing, I gotta say no. The entire thing is a bit cost prohibitive without much gain. You can buy a clone, give it a metal body and a full compliment of mags and still have plenty of cash left over to actually go play and afford ammo and repairs.
But if you're looking at this gun between it and the Systema PTWs... I'd say go for this all the way. The only thing the PTWs have over this is springs that change on the fly... but when you're training or playing, how often do you REALLY need that?
The reliability of TM is a BIG bonus over everything.
Update to follow once I play a game or two with this thing
This post is friendly reminder that no-one should be posting in review threads unless adding something useful. If you have the uncontrollable urge to slober-on about someone's gun, use the rep system.
Ok, well after playing with it for a whole day of skirmishing, I can now speak to it's field performance. (Estimate of about 2,000 rounds shot through it over the course of the day.)
This thing is AWESOME. I haven't had this much fun with an airsoft gun... ever. The shooting, the solidity, the overall package... just perfect.
The recoil thing grew on me in a big way, REALLY fast. Shouldering and shooting this thing is just a helluvalotta fun. Surprisingly, It does not affect accuracy what so ever (or it's so small it wasn't noticeable).
In fact, I found this gun to be fairly accurate and far-reaching once everything was set. I did notice that the gun is shooting a bit off to the right for some reason. It was, however, constant. So it was easily compensated with sight adjustment. Something is either misaligned or it's a bent barrel. This is an annoyance, but not a big one as it was easily "adapted" to.
Unfortunately, though, the groupings, at a distance, weren't as tight as I'd like. I certainly had no problem hitting man-sized targets, but it meant I had to keep the gun shooting in bursts. I foresee a tightbore barrel in the gun pretty soon.
The "reaching out" portion though, just floored me. I wasn't hitting things from miles away, mind you, but I was certainly getting farther than I would have guessed. Next time I have to pull out my other M4 and see how exactly the two compare.
The bolt catch? Yeah, it's actually a little annoying when you're in a firefight. Especially, when you're not used to hitting this button. But still fun. There were a few times I popped in a fresh mag, lined up my target, pulled the trigger, only to be greeted with silence. Then that classic moment when you realize you need to hit the button.
Throughout the day, as I said, I put somewhere close to 2,000 rounds through the gun. TM says the battery will last for at least 3,000 rounds. Unfortunately, I did not get that far as my battery died. Given the temperature of today, though, (high of 40º) the failure was completely expected, even if a little disheartening. Still, if you plan on winter play, a second battery is a must. In the summer, if this happens, I'll be real alarmed.
One other issue with the gun I want to mention was the castle-screw. This is a screw that keeps the buffer tube of the gun tight and not twisting on you. On my gun, the castle screw was loose. It was hand-tightened, but easily manipulated. It's an easy fix if you have an "Armorer's Tool" (thanks again to DkHelmet for letting me borrow it). But it's still a pain to actually HAVE to fix it.
For the casual gamer, I still think this gun might be a bit extreme. But if you've been in airsoft a while and looking for a more realistic upgrade, or even just a FUN upgrade, you'll be hard pressed to beat this. It's just a blast.
This battery system, while innovative, sucks. Well, it's actually a great setup, but if this is what I have to look forward to, it's not worth the new version.
I don't know if it's a common ailment of all crane stocks, but this battery doesn't want to work in the cold. At all. Last saturday when we played at PL, it didn't get past the 30º mark, and we began playing in the high teens, low twentys.
I wasn't able to get a even a full mag out of the gun before the battery died. Meanwhile, my AEP while suffering from the cold, still powered through. The difference in batteries is the AEP one is 500mah, while the M4 is 1300.
Hoping it was an erroneous situation(or just a bad charge, as my other large battery was also suffering), I played with the gun again yesterday with a high of 50. The battery certainly lasted much longer yesterday, but was still dying when it got chilly.
(oh and for the record... gun is awesome when it works.)
Now, obviously, this battery is being forced to do a lot more work since it's shot more than AEP and because it has to deal with blowback. But even for a battery rated at 3k shots before it fails, this is pretty abysmal.
There's really only two theories left: Bad battery, or I'm stuck working with the same rules that Gas guns are restricted to. Either way, I'm not happy about that.
Still, this is just another perfect reason of not buying first run versions. You're taking a large gamble on whether or not it works perfectly for you or not.
Do you think they'll come out with a better battery?
__________________ [The Code of Conduct of ROK Forces in Vietnam]
1. To the enemy, Be courageous and fearful.
2. To the Vietnamese people, Behave with kindness and warmness.
3. To our allies, show them we are well disciplined and reliable. Vietnam Airsoft Group浪人Team Ronin-MUSTARD JAR!!!!!!!!!!!
I honestly have no idea. I would certainly hope so.
On the bright side, the battery itself isn't exactly rocket science. So what you can do is order better cells from like cheapbatterypacks.com or something, and just replace the cells.
Which is what my plan is should my new battery work far better than this one.
It is also possible that with a crane stock, the batteries are simply getting colder than normal. In a mini or large pack, you have a bunch of cells sitting next to each other, so they can kind of keep each other warm a bit while being used. I'm assuming the M4 uses a crane battery, so all the cells are in a line. This makes it harder for them to keep each other warm, and also exposes a lot more surface area to get colder faster in the first place.
THe other difference could be starting conditions. If you have the gun in a warm car, then pull it out, the battery will still be warm. If you shoot with it right away, it starts warm, so does reasonably well. Even on a 40 degree day, it can take a while to cool. Now on a day with weather in the teens, the battery will get cold a lot faster, and I'm wondering if maybe the gun was out sitting long enough that it cooled off before you even started playing with it? That could be another explanation for the difference in battery life that is so extreme.
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I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they go by.
I agree. And I have no doubt that is definitely playing a part in it. But even if it's getting cold, 1300 mah should last longer than a partial mag even on a very cold day, shouldn't it? It was in a heated thermal bag up until we deployed to the field, and at most was "exposed" (with 2 layers of plastic providing insulation) for about 20 minutes before I started shooting. (and then about 10 rounds into the mag, it died)
What is making me alarmed is on the first day it was out, it got to a high of 40, and the battery lasted all day with no problems. ROF was a bit on the low side, but it lasted all day. On Sunday, a day where it was a high of 55, it didn't make it past lunch before needing recharged.
I put around 1k rounds through it throughout the day on sunday, and even with a recharge at lunch, it was very dead once I got home and warmed the battery. That's about half of what I shot through the gun on the first day.
I've put the battery though a "conditioning" cycle. We'll see if that gives it a boost in performance for next time.
Is your charger able to discharge the battery and if so does it show you what was discharged? It sounds like a bad battery to me. I have a Triton Jr. that cycles batteries as well as charges. It show how many mAh the battery took during the charging phase then discharges the battery down to a preset voltage (your choice). When done it will show the discharge mAh. You are more than welcome to use my charger to cycle your battery if your does not do the job. I have years and years off experience with batteries through my other hobby that is battery intensive. I personally own over 40 NIHM pack and 20 lead acid batteries. Don’t even ask me how many chargers.
Anyways, let me know if you need any help.
Plato
__________________
In combat you lose even when you win.
Hopefully your conditioning cycle works, though it all does seem pretty odd. And you're very right, you should defnitely get more than half a mag out of a 1300 mAh battery, even if it were cold. I think I might have to go with the bad battery theory if the conditioning doesn't fix it. The temperatures and scenarios you describe don't seem to lend themselves to my super-cold theory.
Was the gun even trying to turn over when you pulled the trigger, or was it just flat out dead? If it was at least trying to crank the motor, it is possible one of the cells in the pack has a short or is bad, of course that still means you'll need a whole new pack. It is also possible, although rare, that the short in the battery only came out after a full charge/discharge use, which would have occured the first time you used the gun. If you do have a short or bad cell (depending on how the cell is bad) and you condition cycle the battery, it could get pretty hot, so watch out for that when cycling it. But you knew that .
Maybe you can wire up another battery you have that you know works on in the cold (jury rig a large battery to the connector or something), just for testing purposes, make sure it isn't a wiring problem or motor problem or anything.
Good Luck!
__________________
I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they go by.
Hopefully your conditioning cycle works, though it all does seem pretty odd. And you're very right, you should defnitely get more than half a mag out of a 1300 mAh battery, even if it were cold. I think I might have to go with the bad battery theory if the conditioning doesn't fix it. The temperatures and scenarios you describe don't seem to lend themselves to my super-cold theory.
Was the gun even trying to turn over when you pulled the trigger, or was it just flat out dead? If it was at least trying to crank the motor, it is possible one of the cells in the pack has a short or is bad, of course that still means you'll need a whole new pack. It is also possible, although rare, that the short in the battery only came out after a full charge/discharge use, which would have occured the first time you used the gun. If you do have a short or bad cell (depending on how the cell is bad) and you condition cycle the battery, it could get pretty hot, so watch out for that when cycling it. But you knew that .
Maybe you can wire up another battery you have that you know works on in the cold (jury rig a large battery to the connector or something), just for testing purposes, make sure it isn't a wiring problem or motor problem or anything.
Good Luck!
Good point, a wiring issue could also be causing the problem. I would make sure the battery is not the issue before I would look at the wiring.
Is it possible that the recoil engine is just drawing more amps than a normal gearbox!?
I am sure the load on the motor must increase as it’s forced to do more work. In my rc boats the amp draw on the motor goes up substantially as I increase the size of the props. Larger prop, more work for the motor means motor drawing more amps, less run time on battery.
Just a thought
__________________
In combat you lose even when you win.
Is your charger able to discharge the battery and if so does it show you what was discharged? It sounds like a bad battery to me. I have a Triton Jr. that cycles batteries as well as charges. It show how many mAh the battery took during the charging phase then discharges the battery down to a preset voltage (your choice). When done it will show the discharge mAh. You are more than welcome to use my charger to cycle your battery if your does not do the job. I have years and years off experience with batteries through my other hobby that is battery intensive. I personally own over 40 NIHM pack and 20 lead acid batteries. Don’t even ask me how many chargers.
Anyways, let me know if you need any help.
Plato
Yeah, my charger isn't that sophisticated at all. It just shuts off when the battery is full and it stops discharging just before it's completely dead.
Thanks for the offer. Might take you up on it. I'm due for a new charger anyway, so if it's a bad charger, just gives me a reason to find a new one
But I'm doubting it's the charger more and more, as I used the "special charger" that was bought with the gun for the last game, and it still died.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstNight
Hopefully your conditioning cycle works, though it all does seem pretty odd. And you're very right, you should defnitely get more than half a mag out of a 1300 mAh battery, even if it were cold. I think I might have to go with the bad battery theory if the conditioning doesn't fix it. The temperatures and scenarios you describe don't seem to lend themselves to my super-cold theory.
Was the gun even trying to turn over when you pulled the trigger, or was it just flat out dead? If it was at least trying to crank the motor, it is possible one of the cells in the pack has a short or is bad, of course that still means you'll need a whole new pack. It is also possible, although rare, that the short in the battery only came out after a full charge/discharge use, which would have occured the first time you used the gun. If you do have a short or bad cell (depending on how the cell is bad) and you condition cycle the battery, it could get pretty hot, so watch out for that when cycling it. But you knew that .
Maybe you can wire up another battery you have that you know works on in the cold (jury rig a large battery to the connector or something), just for testing purposes, make sure it isn't a wiring problem or motor problem or anything.
Good Luck!
Yeah it was definitely trying to turn the gun. Unfortunately, wiring another battery to this gun is a giant pain in the rear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldest
Good point, a wiring issue could also be causing the problem. I would make sure the battery is not the issue before I would look at the wiring.
Is it possible that the recoil engine is just drawing more amps than a normal gearbox!?
I am sure the load on the motor must increase as it’s forced to do more work. In my rc boats the amp draw on the motor goes up substantially as I increase the size of the props. Larger prop, more work for the motor means motor drawing more amps, less run time on battery.
Just a thought
I would agree, but this battery is slated for at least 3000 shots before it dies. TM is usually pretty on for how long their stuff works. One of the reasons I love their guns.
However... that said, I just had a thought that the motor maybe be too high in the gun, making it too tight and thus needing to pull more power from the battery than what it normally would.
You know... it'd just be easier if we lived in a 70º environment all the time.
If it was trying to turn the gun, you may have hit "critical temperature". As you know, when batteries get colder, they lose power because the internal reactants can't do their work as efficiently, resulting first in a current capacity drop, then in a voltage drop. You may have hit a point where the battery just got so cold that it couldn't deliver the power required to turn the motor. This could be a symptom of several things.
First, it could mean like you mentioned that your motor is misadjusted. Too high and it takes more current to turn at all, so the threshold at which the battery can't turn the motor will be higher.
Second, and more likely, it could mean you have 1 or more weak cells inside the battery pack. As all batteries are never exactly the same, you may have picked up 1 cell that has bad cold-weather performance. If it drops voltage before the other cells, you wind up under-volting the motor, making it harder to turn, and requiring more current, thus forcing up your threshold even higher. Also, other batteries in your pack will try to "charge" the weaker battery, which results in a net loss of current capacity from the pack.
We also must remember the fundamental rule of battery packs, that you cannot pull more current from the pack than you can from any individual member cell of the pack - provided the pack is wired in series (which airsoft packs are). If you have one weak cell that can't provide as much current, then the entire pack diminishes. Battery cells aren't just straight conductors, they can't conduct an infinite amount of current. They will only conduct as much current as they themselves can put out. So even if all the other cells can put out 30A continuous current, if one cell is bad or weak, while you're voltage will still be 8.4V, you can only deliver a fraction of that total current, all the way down to nothing. (If you get a completley bad battery and put it in the pack, while the pack will read as 8.4V, it will have zero current capacity, which is why it won't work when you plug it in).
In your case, you already have dimished current capacity from the cold, let's argue 50% loss, so 15 amps continuous. Then if you have one cell that performs even worse in the cold, let's argue a 66% loss over normal. That leaves only 5 amps continuous available from the entire pack. Your actual figures could be even lower.
All said and done, if cycling the pack doesn't fix it for the cold, there are a lot of things that could be wrong with the pack itself. I would replace the battery pack before you start picking through wiring or motor height or anything like that, because it is a lot less likely it is any of these things.
Hopefully this reasonably explains some of the science and helps!
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I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they go by.
If TM rates it for 3000 rounds then I doubt the motor height will help. Adjust it anyways since that’s a no brainer and takes less than a minute but I would try using another battery pack like the other gentleman suggested. Hell, just toss a freshly charged mini out side for 30 minutes and then run some rounds through the rifle and see what it does.
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In combat you lose even when you win.
unfortunately, that won't work as the battery setup will not allow any other type of battery short of the "sopmod type".
If you pull the stock it may have a standard or a mini connector at the point the stock meets the receiver. (Wire extension) You could also just splice a connector into the wiring just to test a different battery. Would not take too much effort and it could be fixed later with some shrink tubing.
It may worth the trouble since the battery is so expensive. It would suck to buy a new one just to find out the problem is not the battery.
Anyways, let us know what you find.
__________________
In combat you lose even when you win.
Or you can use paper clips / mini alligator clips to just hook the two diffferent connectors together, provided there indeed is one in the gun. If it's more like a phone or laptop battery where it slides into a "jack", then you'd either have to use creative alligator-clipping, or go with the splice method.
I have some tiny alligator clips I can get to you if you don't have any, PM me.
If it is a battery jack, post that up, because I'd like to know that more than the battery form factor is what makes it proprietary to sopmod batteries. Which makes me dislike the new battery design even more, but that's another subject.
Good luck!
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I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they go by.
Last edited by FirstNight : 02-05-2009 at 08:07 AM.
Back on track for reviews, I thought I should chime in. The range on this thing shouldn't be understated, Randy was reaching me easily with his stock TM while I had my usual PDI 150%/POM head combo shooting 380fps, and I was juuuust getting to him. I thought someone had crawled up and shot from a hidden position.
Also, the recoil is pretty damn good. It's not quite like a real .223, but close enough to make you go "whoa".
A deep cycle was all that was needed. Seemed it developed some memory.
Battery lasted all day yesterday and was very strong throughout. Still didn't put anywhere close to 3K rounds through the gun on one battery, but I easily got close to 1500 yesterday.
A deep cycle was all that was needed. Seemed it developed some memory.
Battery lasted all day yesterday and was very strong throughout. Still didn't put anywhere close to 3K rounds through the gun on one battery, but I easily got close to 1500 yesterday.
Thanks for suggestions all!
Good stuff
__________________
In combat you lose even when you win.
That is one NICE LADDER you got there Jay!Did you have to use it when you put the sopmod gun on the wall, that was only 5 inches higher than ya?
just kidding:D
But anyway nice gun!;)
__________________ [The Code of Conduct of ROK Forces in Vietnam]
1. To the enemy, Be courageous and fearful.
2. To the Vietnamese people, Behave with kindness and warmness.
3. To our allies, show them we are well disciplined and reliable. Vietnam Airsoft Group浪人Team Ronin-MUSTARD JAR!!!!!!!!!!!
It attaches through the hole in the carry handle. They are great because you don't need a rail. The one I have on my m16 has a "see through" mount so I can use my iron sights as well.
Great looking rifle both. One question, what is a deep cycle for the battery?
Player:
For all intents and purposes blowback and recoil are the same. They are both systems for autoloading real firearms, and the differences are minute.
In airsoft, the terms are used interchangeably, although they can sometimes signify different things. A blowback engine, such as on blowback pistols, is an engine that causes the slide to move back and forth, causing the gun to "kick". A recoil engine is more designed to attempt to force the entire gun backwards against your hand or shoulder. In a real firearm, the force required to accelerate the bullet is huge, which will result in an equally huge reactive force backwards. In airsoft, the force required is miniscule, so recoil is equally minimal. A recoil engine attempts to simulate the backwards force of firing a real firearm. A blowback engine can be a component of a larger, more extensive recoil system, like on this gun.
Further reading on blowback and recoil, it can give you the actual differences in real operation.
PA Airsofter:
A deep cycle on a battery is the practice of completely discharging it, then charging it up fully again. It is typically done to reduce the "memory" effects in a battery. Basically, you will usually not discharge the battery fully (unless you use a discharger). If you use the battey for a week, and it only uses half the battery, then you charge it, and do this over and over, soon the battery will lose capcity because you aren't using the full potential of the battery. Deep Cycling Ni-MH batteries is not as necessary as other types (Ni-Cad), and is really only reccommended if you are having problems with the battery, or need to condition it (like when you first get it). Deep cycling the battery helps deteriorate any of the physical formations (crystals) that grow within the battery during use, and are often the cause of battery problems. Continual deep cycles are not shown to hurt Ni-MH batteries, but doing them does put some strain on the battery, so it could shorten the lifespan of the battery.
Refer to our battery thread for these and other answers to your battery questions: Battery Thread
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I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they go by.
The recoil and blow back, for this gun, I'll go as far as to say they are pretty separate entities.
When the gun cycles, it shoves the piston towards the back of the gearbox like any normal AEG, however, unlike normal AEGs... there is no "back" to this gearbox (in the common understanding). So it basically shoves the piston into a weight that sits in the buffer tube. Which causes your recoil. The weight pushes against the rear of the gun, and then piston rebounds off that to fire the BB.
The blowback, which is the bolt being pulled and let pushed forward, isn't dependent on the the recoil setup. The only thing the two have in common is that it requires the piston being pulled back. The actual "blowback" in this gun doesn't much kick at all (akin to most AEGs). So it is purely a cosmetic and auditory bonus and not a tactile one.
probably most of this has been said already, but I thought it couldn't hurt to post my review from AirsoftNJ here....perhaps some more info for you....
- A TM M4 with a metal body from the factory.......AWESOME!! perfect trades.....
- Does not have fold up/down front/rear sights and I wish it did.....
- The battery is easy to get in the stock, interesting mechanism for battery connection fixed, but stock to stock tube connection are sliding strips of metal, so you have connectivity no matter where you position the rear stock....
- Havent charged the battery yet, so testing on a full battery is tomorrow....the battery had a bit of charge in it and I shot it few times.....the moving bolt thingy didnt move so well.....but when firing it, I thought I was firing a PTW.....lot's of recoil movement.....
- it definitely stops firing after the last bb.....and you definitely have to push the bolt release button to get it to fire again when a new mag is put in....COOL!
pretty darn happy so far although I'm thinking this thing is only going to be good for CQB, and not a competitive outdoors full on AEG.....but we'll see....
The gun is basically a TM M4RIS with a Crane stock setup and a metal body.....in regular AEG prices that would be:
TM M4 RIS..............$300....
Crane stock and battery.........$100 to $150....
Metal body upgrade.................$150
total.....................$550 to $600
and I got this SOPMOD for $548.10.........so I'm out just as much money had I got all this stuff in a regular TM AEG new.......so not bad so far......
after firing:
ROF is average, but the gun really rocks back and forth as it fires, not like a real gun....but a decent try at simulating recoil....
the 8.4v battery will not last a full days skirmishing in my opinion.....
range is good at 130 feet or so......easily good for CQB or close skirmishing in tight woods....
So I couldn't find any decent breakdowns of the SOPMOD online (found a few, but nothing I didn't already know) so I decided to write one up in this ongoing thread here.
First off, the reason for why I'm doing the breakdown, and this goes towards the review. During last week's game I somehow lost full-auto capability. Not completely, as it would still kick in sporadically, but nothing reliable. Semi-auto worked 100% perfectly fine, and no other aspects were FUBARed, but hell... shooting this thing full tilt is half the fun! So seeing as it was out of warranty (and void since I modified it with the flip-down sight & trigger guard according to the wording of said warranty), I wanted to try my hand at solving the problem.
As best as anyone could figure out after talking to several people the day of, we narrowed it down to faulty contacts in either the trigger mechanism itself (highly unlikely since semi-auto worked 100%) or on the selector plate (most likely). Cleaning off a carbonized selector plate was nothing new to me, just getting to it could prove to be somewhat of a chore. Let me say this: I hate, hate, hate, hate version 2 mech boxes. Removing the grip and motor to get access to the box is beyond tedious. But I've also done it enough times that I felt comfortable in getting the box out. That said, I learned a LOT so before you even THINK of breaking down your SOPMOD... think again, it's a major endeavor.
Pull the charging handle back slightly and push the upper receiver forward at the same time. http://www.coeusdesigns.net/c3/sopmod/S6300751.JPGREMEMBER THE EXTRA LONG AIR NOZZLE! Be sure you move the upper receiver forward enough that the nozzle clears the hop-up unit (hold the hop-up in place in the upper receiver if necessary).
Now removing the buttstock has been reportedly a pain in the neck, I actually found that to be the easiest and most common part of the entire process. You simply pull the lever all the way down like on any normal M4 - the difference this time is that you have to remember to pull it ALL of the way down so that the button clears the contacts that are on the bottom of the buffer tube. http://www.coeusdesigns.net/c3/sopmod/S6300754.JPGhttp://www.coeusdesigns.net/c3/sopmod/S6300755.JPG
Now here is an oddity in my M4... there are supposed to be two screws that secure the buttstock position piece in place... I don't have any! Whether or not this will cause problems down the line I can't tell... but I haven't seen any abnormal stock wobble, even when compared to other SOPMODs. http://www.coeusdesigns.net/c3/sopmod/S6300757.JPG In any event, remove the screws and remove the position piece.
Here is one of the more troublesome parts, the buffer tube actually has to be unscrewed from the body. Let me tell you the kind of ways of fun this is, because you really do need an armorer's tool. A monkey wrench will do, as it did in my case, but you will really scratch the hell out of the endcap piece... as in my case. Start by unscrewing the endcap piece until it clears the threads, then move the angled piece towards the back as well.
Now you need to unscrew the contact piece at the end of the buffer tube - be careful because there is a small spring under the contact piece that assures it makes full contact with the metal strips in the buttstock (I almost lost this little sucker... that woulda SUCKED!). Now you can begin to unscrew the buffer tube itself, making sure to hold the wires in place towards the bottom of the lower receiver so you don't rip out any contacts, the easiest way to do this is to brace against the threaded endcap towards the rear of the buffer tube. Remove the small metal piece that covers the wires so they are not exposed when the stock is extended.
Once that is done, you have to screw the endcap towards the front of the buffer tube to remove it (there is no way to clear it towards the back of the buffer tube) along with the angled piece. This rubbed against the wires, but not enough to strip them. I would like to find a better way to remove the buffer tube, but can't see any at the moment, because eventually this will wear the insulation on the wires down and start causing shorts. http://www.coeusdesigns.net/c3/sopmod/S6300758.JPG
Once the buffer tube is unscrewed, carefully remove it being sure to catch the spring guide. This caught me by surprise. I had heard that the mechbox is open ended but it's still not something you really expect in an AEG most times. http://www.coeusdesigns.net/c3/sopmod/S6300759.JPG
The spring is attached to the piston, and as such you can't EZ Swap the spring in this fashion. I did not enter the mechbox so I can't tell if the spring is the same length as standard M4 springs or, as I have heard, is a custom length.
This is standard V2 M4 procedure, remove the endcap on the grip, disconnect the wires into the motor, and then pull the motor clear. Remove the two screws that attach the grip to the mechbox and pull the grip off. http://www.coeusdesigns.net/c3/sopmod/S6300762.JPG
Now for more surprises. The rear body pin is a fake. It doesn't go through the mechbox as on a normal V2. The body pin by the trigger, however, is perfectly real. Use a small object to push that out, remove the mag release, and you can start to remove the mechbox itself.
You will note that the bolt release comes with it, REMEMBER THE POSITION OF THE BOLT RELEASE! When reassembling you have to move it and the mechbox back into place at the same time. If you put the bolt release in first not only will it not be in the correct position to trip when your mid/low cap mags are empty, but you will also be unable to put the mechbox back in because the release blocks it.
There you have it... now personally I feel that this is NOT just some "modified v2" but rather a "v8" mechbox - something completely different and new.
Now that the mechbox is off, I removed the selector plate (also a different design) only to be surprised yet again. The contact isn't on the plate itself! It is built into the mechbox... well this causes a bit of a problem for cleaning, because I was not going to open the mechbox under any circumstance, not this time around anyway.
I did my best to clean the contacts and make sure they were in what I assumed to be the correct position - it seems I did the job right because the gun is now firing just fine in full auto! The reassembly went fairly quickly, once I realized that the bolt release had to be moved into position and finagled at the same time as the mechbox itself. The open-ended nature of the box is problematic when reassembling, because you have to take care when getting the spring into the hole at the back of the lower receiver.
Again, this is NOT something I would advise for someone who is just starting or even just familiar with dis-assembly and reassembly of a standard M4.
Questions? Advise? Ideas?
__________________ "Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong."
-Thomas Fuller
I can't say with 100% certainty. The way the contacts work is two pieces of metal in fixed positions (one above the other) that are pushed together when the selector switch moves the plate over top of them. I cleaned between them with some steel wool as best as I could (VERY small space, like 1-2mm) without having to crack the box to get at them individually. I couldn't see in between the contacts to tell if they were funked up or not. Whether it was that or just a loose connection that I inadvertently tightened during the process I don't know - but it's firing just fine now.
__________________ "Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong."
-Thomas Fuller
So did you get your sopmod fixed Jay? At the last game I was at, you lost that one piece.
__________________ [The Code of Conduct of ROK Forces in Vietnam]
1. To the enemy, Be courageous and fearful.
2. To the Vietnamese people, Behave with kindness and warmness.
3. To our allies, show them we are well disciplined and reliable. Vietnam Airsoft Group浪人Team Ronin-MUSTARD JAR!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I'm going to post an update (including the details on the piece I lost) as soon as I can get the time. It seems to be 100% though now - the contacts were indeed the problem.
__________________ "Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong."
-Thomas Fuller
Or it could be that you got the French made one But that's good that you got it back up and running.
__________________ [The Code of Conduct of ROK Forces in Vietnam]
1. To the enemy, Be courageous and fearful.
2. To the Vietnamese people, Behave with kindness and warmness.
3. To our allies, show them we are well disciplined and reliable. Vietnam Airsoft Group浪人Team Ronin-MUSTARD JAR!!!!!!!!!!!
Has any one of you seen then new TM M-4 with blowback action it's new to the market and sold on Redwolf airsost. It uses the SOPMOD mags and standard batteries, and is comparable in price. Any thoughts, or comments?
Do try to keep up, Mike. I don't think we'll be merging reviews on the two though, because even though they both have the Blowback Engine the new one uses a different (looks like a standard mini?) battery & normal adjustable stock, plus no RIS.
__________________ "Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong."
-Thomas Fuller
Do try to keep up, Mike. I don't think we'll be merging reviews on the two though, because even though they both have the Blowback Engine the new one uses a different (looks like a standard mini?) battery & normal adjustable stock, plus no RIS.
Sorry!! Been out of touch for a while, but have been seriously looking at the SOPMOD and just found the new SOCOM and wanted to know a little more about it, and if any one has one.
It was quite clear last winter that the SOPMOD and it's new battery style, isn't a cold-weather gun. In the summer the battery lasts all day without issue, and while I certainly had a "less-than-awesome" battery, the fact is the things still die out quicker due to the cold.
With that thought in mind, I needed something I could skirmish with in the freezing temps. The problem was I didn't want to couldn't go back to the standard AEG type. The recoil was too much fun.
Enter the TM M4 SOCOM. Basically it's the SOPMOD without Rails and able to use standard type batteries. Large batteries = winter play. I think I'm set for the cold.
As it seems with all my recent Airsoft Purchases, there was a bit of drama getting this gun. I won't bore you with the details, but I will say Airsoft Atlanta rocks the house. Once a hit or miss place to order from, now seemingly rock solid. I've done several orderings from them recently and have talked to others who have done the same. For this particular order, they took care of me better than you would expect a retailer would. Highly recommended.
Onto the fun of opening. (with way better photos than the SOPMOD!)
The gun comes in a glossy silver style box that is, in my opinion, a bit of a break from the normal AEG setup. Usually it's a type of blue, dark green, or black for these boxes.
Anyway, I open it up to find the gun sitting there in all it's splendor. Airsoft Atlanta also made sure my flashhider was black. Aces. I'm unsure why it's wrapped in purple tape, but I honestly don't care.
One bonus that this gun has that the SOPMOD doesn't is that it's got a front sling swivel.... and get this, it's a SIDEWAYS one. Meaning it's begging for you to put a M203 on this thing. TMs stopped doing sideways sling mounts for some unknown reason a while ago.
The trades on the thing are covered up by metal tape. Easily peeled off to reveal full blown and unmolested trades. Again, aces.
As expected, the hopup is the same as the SOPMOD. Having played with this style hopup for months now, I can confidently say this is a solid design for the hopup and another reason I don't want to go back to the old M4s.
Checking out the stock on the SOCOM reveals it's the same as the SOPMOD, just without the wiring parts. Again, no real surprise there. But it does mean that the buffer tube is absolutely needed, and you can't just slap an M16stock onto one of these (unfortunately).
I like rails on my gun. The look, the ability to add extra stuff is nothing but bonus. But one of the biggest drawbacks to me on the SOCOM (if not THE drawback), is the fact that they went with the normal foregrip.
The foregrip itself is fine, feels like your standard Marui grip. No problems that i can see short of it's just not what i like.
Thankfully, this is an easy fix if you have a SOPMOD. With a little work, the SOPMOD's rail system fits onto the SOCOM with no problem. And the funny part? It fits it better. On the SOPMOD, the lower rail moves around a little and has been known to come undone in a fire fight. It's extremely rare and doesn't affect the shooting ever, but I'd be lying if I said it never happened.
On the SOCOM, that sucker is in place and it ain't moving. I've actually been trying to get it to happen, with no luck. Once again: Aces.
At this time I don't know if a Echo1 or other Rail system will fit on the SOCOM, only one I have and could test was the SOPMOD one. One of the selling points of the guns were they took real steel parts. I'm not sure how accurate it is beyond me having a real steel M4 rear sight on the SOPMOD. It's possible they won't take Airsoft RIS, but I can't be sure.
Another thing about the SOCOM is that it feels more sturdy than the SOPMOD. Especially with the rails on. The SOPMOD is a tank, no question, but this just feels even more solid.
Next up, firing. The thing logs in at satisfying 310 FPS. About 10 FPS more than the SOPMOD. I can't give accuracy or distance tests until I get it to the field and play with it. But, call me crazy, I'm expecting everything to be identical to the SOPMOD.
So really, the backup gun is arguably better than the gun it's backing up. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I love my SOPMOD, but this SOCOM is certainly not pulling any punches.
moment when you realize you need to hit the button. 
.
But that's good that you got it back up and running.
